 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: BertC
Date: 2012-02-19 12:51
I bought my clarinet second hand from the long gone Shearers music shop in Leeds in about 1960. It is marked only with the words 'Console' and 'Foreign', and the serial number 2241. I understand that 'Console' was a Selmer brand for students but the word 'Selmer' does not appear on it and the serial nummber 2241 does not fit any Selmer serial number tables I can find. I understand also that some Consoles were made for Selmer under sub-contract by other makers in France, Italy or Czechoslovakia. I must say that for a student instrument it has always seemed pretty good to me. It is wood with nickel plated keys. I fitted it with a Selmer C* mouthpiece and played traditional jazz on it in my youth in Leeds and found it fine for that purpose with an excellent jazz tone. I have just taken it out of its dusty old box and had it fully overhauled and it seems pretty much as good as ever - or it will do when I get my old mouth back in shape. I am curious to know when and where it is likely to have been made. I have always assumed that the word 'Foreign' would have been marked on it to comply with Imperial or Commonwealth Preference, indicating that it must have been made quite early in the 20th Century, but I can't establish exactly when the requirement to mark imports as 'foreign' was dropped. Can anyone enlighten me about any of this?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-02-19 13:56
they were made somewhere between the late '50s to early '70s. I've got a Selmer Sterling A clarinet (which was paired with a Centered Tone Bb) with unplated keywork and although it is a bit rough and ready generally, it's not a bad instrument tone and tuning-wise - very much comparable to a pro level A clarinet.
Here's some info on Selmer London: http://www.clarinetperfection.com/clsnSelmerUK.htm
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2012-02-19 13:59)
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Author: BertC
Date: 2012-02-19 13:58
Many thanks for your suggestion Putz. As far as I can see though, the serial number 2241 in 1923 in your link would have been for a Selmer Model 22, and the only references I can find to Model 22s are either saxophones or alto Eb clarinets, not standard Bb clarinets like my Console. Or am I missing something?
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Author: BertC
Date: 2012-02-19 14:21
Many thanks for your help ChrisP. It can't be from the 60s to early 70s because it was already an old reconditioned second hand instrument when I bought it in about 1960. I see from the very interesting link on Selmer London that you kindly provided that 'Console' is mentioned as one of Ben Davis's brands back in the 1920s and 30s, which, plus the fact that it is marked 'Foreign', reinforces my hunch that it must have been made back in those days. It's just frustrating though that I can't match it up with any serial number tables. If I could I might even be able to find out whether it was made in France for Ben Davis's Selmer London company by Malerne, or whether it was one of their Czech or Italian jobs.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-02-19 14:26
If you can post some detailed photos of it (keywork and fittings, lower joint pillars, socket rings, engraving, etc.), someone on here could determine who and where it was made.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Steve L
Date: 2012-02-19 14:34
Scheerer Music still exists although it is now in The Merrion Centre which probably wasn't there in 1960. Bought a pair of Yamaha SEV's from them last year.
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Author: BertC
Date: 2012-02-19 16:47
Many thanks once again for your interest and help Chris. I'll try to attach 5 photos to this message that I hope will give you the information you need. That doesn't seem to have worked. I'll compress the photos and try again in a fresh post. Incidentally, you'll see when I do that the serial number is actually 2341, not 2241.
Post Edited (2012-02-19 18:01)
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Author: BertC
Date: 2012-02-19 17:53
That's great to know Steve. Last time I was in Leeds many years ago I noticed that the whole area near the Coburg pub where Scheerers used to be had been flattened and re-developed, so I assumed the shop had vanished without trace. That was sad because the whole of the jazz fraternity I mixed with in 1960s Leeds all made a point of patronising Scheerers rather than the posh arcade music shop - I think it was called Kitchens. Next time I get back to Leeds I must look them up in the Merrion Centre.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2012-02-19 19:12
I saw a lot of Consoles around in the 1950s.
It is my understanding that they were never made by Selmer Paris.
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Author: BertC
Date: 2012-02-19 19:27
Yes, that's my impression too. But apparently a lot of them were made in France for Selmer London by Malerne under sub-contract. What puzzles me is that every other Console I have ever seen is named on its body as 'Selmer Console', not just 'Console' 'Foreign' with no mention of Selmer like mine, which makes me think mine might be older. Mind you, my instrument has a very short tuning barrel with no name on it at all; I suppose it's possible that that's a replacement, and that it originally had a longer barrel with 'Selmer Console' on it. Seems unlikely to me though that Selmer would, having put 'Selmer' on the barrel, then refrain from putting it on the main body and the bell where it just says 'Console'.
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Author: Discalced
Date: 2017-09-22 18:38
Hi Steve, this is a couple of years later, but you may be interested to know that last year I bought a Selmer Console 'Foreign' clarinet as a stand-by instrument for when my regular one is serviced. It looks just like your pictures with the Console in a cartouche and 'Foreign' stamped below it on both the bell and the upper joint. There is no 'Selmer' on the Bell or either Joints. The Barrel has "CONSOLE, Selmer, LONDON, FOREIGN" stamped one above each other on the Barrel in decreasing font sizes. The serial number of 2704 is stamped at the top of the top Joint and again at the bottom of the lower Joint. I bought it second hand here in Perth Western Australia from someone lady who said they had it as a teenager and not played it since (30 or so years) and they had got it second hand from someone here in Perth all those years ago. When i got it some notes in the middle register were not sounding but I had it conservatively serviced and then carefully re-oiled the bore little by little over the last year and am now surprised by how good it sounds, even with its own mouthpiece and despite it obviously being an old instrument. As a comparison it has a shorter narrower bore with thinner walls than the Buffet R13. It is also very much lighter than the Buffet. I also cannot find serial number tables or determine when and where it was made.
Post Edited (2017-09-22 18:52)
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