 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Trevor M
Date: 2012-02-15 08:42
I am curious– I have seen a few stories of people having an... ah... 'cooper' make a custom barrel made that immediately fixes a clarinet's gross intonation issues (usually these stories are about smaller clarinets). A tech recently made a barrel for my new Eb to this end, but suggested I change from my Fobes mouthpiece to a Selmer which would work better with this new barrel.
So, what gives, exactly? I know that mouthpiece intonation is theoretically variable from mouthpiece to mouthpiece and horn to horn... do these people send along their preferred mouthpiece to, say, Chadash, and the guy crafts a barrel with that mouthpiece's peculiarities in mind? Or do they craft a barrel to the tolerances of some shop mouthpiece that they use as a standard?
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-02-15 14:46
Some shops will request the current barrel and mouthpiece to make a 'custom' barrel. I must admit some skepticism on my part since even those folks who have made the trek to Maury Backun's shop tell of just plowing through random barrels until they find the ones they like. I also have a recent requirement for a rather short barrel on an already short barreled clarinet (the Yamaha CSG) EVERY custom manufacture (save for Dr. Alan Segal) told me that they CANNOT FILL THE ORDER !!! hmmmmm.........
That said there are many problems with the tuning of twelfths on particularly the recent Buffet clarinets that I feel has led to the current boon in after market barrels that DO in fact help.
So, if you have an issue with intonation (or some timbre issue) you may benefit from throwing yourself into the fire with the rest of us.
..................Paul Aviles
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Author: kdk
Date: 2012-02-15 15:09
Sometimes a really skilled, experienced craftsman with the right tools can improve intonation using an existing barrel - usually a spare so you still have your main barrel intact if the changes aren't successful. After all, Moennig and others of his generation used to tweak original equipment barrels all the time before the after-market barrel industry existed.
My feeling is that most of the after-market barrel manufacturers are making their products less to improve intonation than to change the timbral color of the instrument. All of the after-market barrels I've ever tried (and bought) sounded different from each other. Rarely did one of them make a difference (other than what you'd expect from a longer or shorter length) in the intonation of the instrument. Any attempt to cure specific intonation problems of an instrument with a barrel would, if it can be done at all, involve the instrument itself in addition to the barrel and mouthpiece.
Morrie Backun recently did some tweaking (as well as a lot of mechanical work on the instrument) on an existing barrel of a C clarinet I sent him that had serious pitch problems. But he wasn't selling me a Moba barrel, he was working with one that came with the instrument to solve a specific set of problems, and he had the entire instrument on his bench.
Karl
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2012-02-15 16:11
Many clarinets have the problem of too large 12ths in the top of the horn. This results in flat throat tones and sharp upper clarion using the same length barrel.
I would say that 99% of all after market barrels are made with a reverse taper Moennig style bore.
A narrowing of the bore in the barrel helps to correct the oversize 12ths and result in better tuning.
Most the the tuning improvement, other than getting a shorter or longer barrel comes from this one phenomenon, which has been known for many years.
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpresscom
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-02-15 17:39
So Walter,
For Bb Buffets, would you say it may be best if we all use our 'A' barrels?
(I say Buffet since I know the Buffet 'A' Barrel is a slightly narrower bore)
....................Paul Aviles
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2012-02-15 17:52
Most custom barrel artisans are familar with the commonly used mouthpieces, and also with some of the more esoteric ones.
Bore size and shape of the mouthpiece does have a bearing on what we do
I routinely ask what mouthpiece the player uses, what type of playing he/she does, reed strength, etc.
With this information, I try to make a barrel that will HELP to fix the intonation and sound problem.
I do not recall suggesting anyone change a mouthpiece.....I assume they are comfortable with what they are using. I have, however, waited until someone had their scheduled session with a pro mouthpiece artist before making their barrel.
disclaimer....barrel making is what I do. (a "cooper," eh? Well if the shoe fits, cobble it.)
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: cxgreen48
Date: 2012-02-15 18:27
So if my clarinet has slightly too low throat tones and slightly too sharp upper clarion, then getting a different barrel may solve that issue?
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Author: alto gether
Date: 2012-02-15 19:38
I don't get the slightly flat throat tones. Those toneholes aren't used in clarion, so why aren't they optimized for chalumeau?
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-02-15 21:32
Throat 'F' is second leger line 'C.' Throat 'E' is first leger line 'B.' This is what is being discussed for wide twelfths.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2012-02-15 22:40
I almost always use my A clarinet barrel on both my Bb and A clarinet. This will work on some pairs of clarinets but not others.
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com
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Author: donald
Date: 2012-02-16 04:48
My experience summarised....
- a good Moennig style/inverted cone etc barrel CAN/MAY help certain intonation problems. Sometimes it solves one, but causes another. OFTEN general intonation characteristics stay the same but are "temperred" ie made a bit more manageable...
- a "bad" barrel (one not well matched to the instrument, or a poor example of a stock barrel) can make the intonation worse to a degree that is really obvious (obvious to the listener, and obviously caused by the barrel).
- the most in tune barrel/clarinet/mouthpiece set up i've ever played was when the clarinet/mouthpiece bore had been measured and a barrel made that matched them acoustically. The problem with this was that i changed mouthpiece (to one i really really like, so will have another barrel made when i've got extra $$$)
- if a barrel looks good, or has a dramatic effect on tone quality sometimes a prospective buyer will overlook intonation disadvantages, or halucinate imaginary intonation improvements.
- if you make enough barrels that look pretty, and someone tries 10 of them the chances are they will like at least ONE OF THEM enough to buy, and it's entirely possible that this may have a positive effect on intonation.
dn
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2012-02-16 17:32
cxgreen48 asked:
"So if my clarinet has slightly too low throat tones and slightly too sharp upper clarion, then getting a different barrel may solve that issue?"
A: It might.
More info:
A common intonation problem that is helped by changing certain barrel parameters is the flat LOW F/E (covered notes) with a sharp Clarion. The same barrel "fix" (I find) also "defuzzes" throat tones. The total fix that Moennig employed also shortened the bell tenon and used a longer barrel. But that total fix is not necessarily needed on newer instruments.
However, you might want to have the tone holes and pad heights checked before making a purchase, or try openning the lowest trill key on the right or other combinations of fingering tricks for the throat tones (search here for others) if you are manually adept.
disclaimer......has not changed since my above post, but I might have just written myself out of a sale.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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