 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Annie
Date: 2003-02-10 06:33
What is the difference in sound between rosewood clarinets and Grenadilla wood clarinets? Please replay via email.
-Annie
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Author: Karel
Date: 2003-02-10 07:39
It would be nice for the rest of us to hear the opinions as well, Annie. That's one of the values of the BBoard.
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2003-02-10 07:39
Please reply on the BBoard- I would also like to know!
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Author: Stéphane
Date: 2003-02-10 08:13
I am no expert at all but I heard it has more to do with aesthetic rather than sound? (bore, mp, reed and the man behind the tube are real impactors)
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Author: Rick
Date: 2003-02-10 09:08
When I was shopping for a new clarinet, I tried a LeBlanc Opus and Symphonie VII side by side. The Symphonie is made from Hoduran Rosewood and is the only rosewood clarinet I've ever played. From what the sales person told me, the bores on these two clarinets are identical as are the pads and it was my mouthpeice and reed.
To be honest, I thought there was only a very subtle difference in sound and I really couldn't describe the differences other than maybe the rosewood is minimally more silk like...and let me say, it was very subtle to the point it could have been my imagination. When playing what might be the most expensive "production" built clarinet in the world, well, I don't trust my own impressions as objective.
What I did notice was that the Symphonie was lighter than the Opus.
The woods themselves are fairly similar. Honduran Rosewood is Dalbergia stevensonii, while African Blackwood is Dalbergia Melanoxylon. Grenadilla is the local Mozambique term for African Blackwood, which would lead a person to think that Mozambique is the source for most clarinet material. Dalbergia Melanoxylon however is available from perhaps 5-6 African nations, each of which have a local name for the wood.
Honduran Rosewood on the other hand is much rarer and lumber is aproximately 3 to 4 times more expensive than blackwood and usually pieces are much smaller. One of the problems associated with rosewood is that it has a very bad tendency to check while drying. Both blackwood and rosewood require 2-4 years to properly dry before kilning.
It is interesting to note, that Honduran Rosewood has taken over for African Rosewood which is to my knowledge no longer available. African Rosewood has a more pinkish hue and in general is considered to be a much superior wood than the Honduran wood. I'm not sure when African Rosewood stopped being commercially available, but it is a good bet that the classic rosewood clarinets from the first half of the last century were from African rosewood, not Honduran.
I've seen enough African and Honduran Rosewood to say that the African variety is beautiful in general while it takes an exceptional example of Honduran Rosewood to match its African cousin.
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Author: kenabbott
Date: 2003-02-10 11:19
I have five rosewood clarinets, four Patricolas and a Rossi. They seem "sweeter" to me, a bit less dark.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2003-02-10 14:06
I've owned both Opus and Symphonie VIIs and found the Symphonie VII (rosewood) to be a bit brighter sounding than the Opus. The acoustics and keys are identical on both instruments and they are both beautiful. I also found the Symphonie VII a bit more difficult to "play with others" than the Opus. The altisimo register was much more piercing and seemed to bother my director quite a bit. I also noticed that it required more frequent adjustments than the Grenadilla models.
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Author: Peter
Date: 2003-02-10 15:23
Rick said, "Both blackwood and rosewood require 2-4 years to properly dry before kilning."
It's sad that the situation has gotten to the point where "kilning" the wood should be talked about as if it were the natural thing to do. There was a time when it took 20 years, or so, to dry the wood without "kilning" it. It made for better instruments. Such is life.
Still, good information, thanks Rick.
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Author: Annie
Date: 2003-02-10 15:49
sorry I didn't see the box, in the future I will just check the box. By the way, thank you for all your help. I am looking at many different clarinets, I am probably going to take out a student loan so it is important that I find a really good one. Thanks again!
-Annie
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Author: Rick
Date: 2003-02-10 16:11
Peter:
I agree with your sentiments on one level, but one of the problems with air curing is the amount of waste generated. Kiln drying when done properly usually generates more usable lumber.
As far as blackwood and rosewood, I still maintain that the cracking issues so often dicussed here are due to improper drying by the manufacturers. Just for my own interest, I took a dimensioned turnig block of blackwood, which was treated in oil and set it outside in the weather. It has been there for about two months with no cracks. But then it was properly dried.
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Author: Bazzer the Jazzer
Date: 2003-02-10 16:15
When I had been playing my metal Selmer for about two months I was getting very happy with, I was on a gig with a band and when we had finished playing I turned to the band leader and said "this is a good horn, I like it" he gave me a reply that has a lot to do with playing a musical instrument "and the man playing it" we have all heard clarinet players using cheap instruments not set up very well and making a sound you admire, I saw a guy in Dumfries many years ago playing Albert System as I did then, he sounded fine, I asked if I could look at his clarinet, it was filthy, the tone holes where full of rubbish, but his tuning and tone where a joy to listen too, perhaps we can get too hooked up on what combinations to use instead of just playing and getting pleasure and joy from our love of music, after all what ever set up we have it is always a compromise.
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Author: Jean
Date: 2003-02-10 23:00
I have both a rosewood Rossi and a grenadilla Rossi. The rosewood is the largest bore he makes so that could be part of the difference here. I find the rosewood much fatter and sweeter sounding. They are both lovely instruments but I am finding I like the rosewood's sound much more than the grenadilla. The low register is especially gorgeous on the rosewood. Due to the smaller bore size on the grenadilla I find it much easier to play. I imagine if the bore sizes were identical the differences might be more subtle.
People certainly do give me odd looks because the clarinet is a purplish-red-brown color. The grain is so pretty. As my grenadilla clarinets age and change in color (I am told this is a chemical reaction to the oils on my skin) more of the grain starts to show and they become prettier every year.
Jean
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Author: diz
Date: 2003-02-10 23:03
Seriously trying to get my head around what "sweeter" means in a tonal landscape - isn't it kind of like describing a taste (food) as atonal?
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Author: Mitch K.
Date: 2003-02-10 23:32
To me, bad cheesecake tastes "atonal".
Mitch King
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-02-11 01:14
I suggest absolute atonality (and litle else) can be found in Tofu.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2003-02-11 02:35
Mr. Paul Laubin who makes very fine oboes in NY has said or written that Honduran rosewood sounds best for oboes.
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Author: clonestar
Date: 2012-02-14 16:37
Interesting info re: Honduran Rosewood. I had read that Grenadilla continues to be the preferred wood primarily because it was easier to machine than rosewood, even though (so it was argued) rosewood could exhibit better tonal qualities. Admittedly qualities like "sweeter", though perhaps true, are at best subjective.
Don
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2012-02-14 17:08
FYI my three F. Arthur Uebel clarinets (Boehm-system soprano Bb, Oehler-system soprano Bb, and Oehler-system bass) all have grenadilla upper joints with rosewood lower joints (and rosewood bells on the Bb clarinets); with the rosewood stained black to more or less match the color of the upper joints. My guess is that this was done for balance, to lighten the weight of the bottom half of the instruments. All these clarinets sound terrific, and I doubt that has anything to do with the difference types of wood used.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-02-14 21:42
My experience with the Patricolas made me believe that the rosewood instruments tend to be just a little 'softer' in sound. If matching projection with section members is important, this may lend a disadvantage.
Also, African Blackwood is a harder more stable material, so there is less expanding and contracting than with rosewood which makes rosewood a little more prone to crack.
....................Paul Aviles
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Author: bethmhil
Date: 2012-02-15 05:11
I agree with Paul about the cracking; I have heard that rosewood is a more porous wood and is more prone to cracking because of this property. Perhaps that would explain why it is lighter (in both weight and tone)...? Blackwood, like Paul said, is harder and most-likely denser, which would make the tone naturally darker than that of rosewood...? I have a rosewood bell and I have noticed that my long notes are subtly more vibrant.
BMH
Illinois State University, BME and BM Performance
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2012-02-15 16:10
Annie,
You (and all the rest of us) want fine clarinets. Two things that you must do to approach a good instrument: 1.) Restrict your choice to those that are very well made and likely to last a long time; and 2.) from those that qualify, select one that really "does it" for you.
Complicating matters is the need to consider those bits between you and the instrument: mouthpiece, barrel, reed. A great clarinet plugged in to a terrible barrel will be terrible.
A great clarinet, poorly set up, will be terrible.
A great clarinet suffering only from a bad barrel and maladjustment can be returned to greatness with a tune up and a different barrel.
If you're shopping a retail, swap barrels and penalize the shop for offering you an offending clarinet by not buying it.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-02-15 17:42
Hey Bob,
Judging from the dates of these posts, we're talkin' to Don right now.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2012-02-16 17:48
Re the above discussion of atonality:
Anton Webern AND Schoenberg did indeed devour tofu.
Whether they relished ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif) it, is subject to interpretation.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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