 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: claboya
Date: 2012-02-07 03:51
I recently read an article by Luigi Magistrelli which says Wurlitzer german mouthpiece (M3+) can be used on french clarinets. The link to the pdf file of the article is pasted below. I thought you couldn't fit a german mouthpiece into a french barrel. Has anyone tried similar experiments and how were the results? Can anybody confirm that german mouthpieces can fit barrels for french instruments?
Thank you.
http://www.google.co.jp/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=wurlitzer%20m3%2B%20french&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCYQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.luigimagistrelli.it%2F45352_June09_BohmSystem.pdf&ei=T6wwT-mvO9HKmQWd_qi2BQ&usg=AFQjCNHywy6D4QIbLL35YsGPiAdG4npvMA&cad=rja
Wurlitzer M3+
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Author: Lam
Date: 2012-02-07 05:05
I could not fix my zinner mouthpiece in my Buffet barrel, the mouthpiece tenon is too wide. sorry that I don't have a Wurlizer mouthpiece.
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Author: CocoboloKid
Date: 2012-02-07 05:22
You may want to give the new Vandoren B40D/M30D Deutsche concept mouthpieces a try...sounds like it's right up your alley. I've been playing on a B40D for months and love it. Currently using it on a national tour, and it's a wonderful piece.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-02-07 11:24
I believe that "Marlboroughman" has stated that there are 'conversion' barrels for the German mouthpieces. I would strongly recommend against this since you are looking at marrying a lion with a tiger. They are NOT acoustic twins and intonation will be a nightmare.
If you want a German sound you need at very least a Reform Boehm clarinet, or you need to get an Oehler system clarinet (made by a decent company......very expensive.........no way around it).
The difference STARTS with the smaller mouthpiece/reed, then goes to the clarinet acoustics, then how you approach playing, then the style you impose, etc., etc.
There are no quick fixes.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2012-02-07 13:28
Luigi Magistrelli is a fine player and expert on these matters, so if he says he's seen M3s that fit French barrels and play in tune, I'm sure he has.
Having said that, the M3 I have doesn't fit Buffet barrels--it's too wide.
As a general rule, I wouldn't recommend trying to put a German bore mouthpiece on a normal French barrel--the intonation problems are pretty bad when you do that. I've been told that some of the new Viottos work well this way, though, and some folks have had success (as mentioned above) with the new Vandoren Deutsche mps (though if you order one, make sure you don't get the "Wide" version--that's for German barrels).
We sell a mouthpiece/barrel combination designed to allow German mouthpieces on French instruments, which has had success: http://wurlitzerclarinetsamerica.com/products/mouthpieces.html
Eric
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The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
Post Edited (2012-02-07 13:29)
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Author: donald
Date: 2012-02-07 19:27
Using the search function I found an earlier thread that I had contributed to...
In 2008 I wrote-
"Theoretically this shouldn't work due to the volume of the mouthpiece bore being wrong for the French System.... however two colleagues of mine- James Fry (2nd clarinet in the APO) and Phillip Green (co Principal in the NZSO) have been using Wurlitzer mouthpieces with Buffet Clarinets for more than a year. They manage to sound great, AND play in tune to standards as high as i've heard anywhere around the world."
I haven't asked these two players lately if they are still using this combination, but know as a fact that they both did so for at least a few years- as did some of their students.
I found that my 3 Wurlitzer mouthpieces (marked "RB K4" and dating from the 1980s) all fitted my Boehm system barrels. I was able to trial this combination for a day or so (using black master reeds). Another colleague (a very fine clarinet player now in Europe) used the same combination and stuck with it for a few weeks before returning to her Lomax A3.
So, as I have stated on this board before (to much incredulity)
1) I am not making this up, it is true
2) Theoretically it shouldn't work acoustically, yet the two players mentioned above both have played extensive concerts using this setup.
however... believe me- these guys can play in tune (Phil has the most reliable intonation I've ever heard).
3) my 2 hard rubber H Wurlitzer mouthpieces (not RB) that I believe date from the 1960s or 70s do fit on a Buffet barrel, but play ridiculously OUT of tune on a french bore clarinet.
4) is there any advantage to doing so? Of that I'm not sure- I didn't find this to be the case but others (higher up the food chain from me) did.
dn
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Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2012-02-07 19:49
donald,
fwiw, I believe you. Strange things can happen with individuals and mouthpiece set-up. My experience has been as yours with German mps on Buffets: terribly out of tune. But I've known others to have had more success.
The same is true the other way around--French mps on German instruments tend to be badly out of tune. This has been the case with most of mine, except for a couple of odd combinations. I played a B45 on my Wurlitzer A as a teenager and never had intonation trouble--likewise I put an old Charles Bay on my Wurlitzer about a year ago just to hear what would happen, and it played very well in tune.
Likewise with tenon issues. I've had some Wurlitzer mps and Viottos that fit either make and some French mps that were likewise; others that fit only one or the other.
There might be a few possible benefits for using a German mp on a French instrument, but for me the biggest is comfort: once I switched over to German mps, I found it impossible to deal with the 'huge' French mouthpiece and reed. The German was just a much better fit for my mouth.
Anyhow, all of my recommendations and caveats are general on these issues.
Eric
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2012-02-07 20:08
At Rico I was in charge of making the German and Eb reeds. I used the Wurlitzer mouthpiece and it was not a dark sound. However it fit the Frenh horns, my Buffet r 13, and it was good. Played well, I didn't notice any serious issues with intonation. With this MP, the Wurlitzer, there were cuts for a string ligature. I used a metal one.
The German and Eb reeds were the same cut, just a different length.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2012-02-08 02:08)
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Author: Jeroen
Date: 2012-02-07 21:43
I played several years on Wurlitzer mpc's on French clarinets.
The standard mpc did not fit but can be simple adjusted by making the mpc tenon a little smaller in width and length to fit the smaller French barrel socket.
The combination was a bit too low in pitch. That can be overcome by shorten the barrel. After these 'simple' adjustments there were no specific intonation issues.
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Author: Menendez
Date: 2012-02-08 21:24
Many facturers make German/Vienna mouthpieces to fit in french clarinets, and french mouthpieces to fit in German/Vienna clarinets. There makers that do both things.
Willscher, Viotto, Nagamatsu, Swchenk & Seggelke, Wurlitzer...
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2012-02-08 23:08
Remember that pitch-wise, what matters (mostly) is the SUM of the internal volumes of the mouthpiece + barrel, so if your mouthpiece has a small bore, use a correspondingly longer barrel and/or a larger-bore barrel (for example, from a Boosey & Hawkes clarinet). You wouldn't believe the ridiculous combinations of mouthpieces and barrels (or on bass and alto clarinets, mouthpieces and necks) that I've been able to get to play in tune.
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