 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Chefmao
Date: 2012-01-04 00:35
https://picasaweb.google.com/niol.ebay/CarlFischerClarinet?authuser=0&feat=directlink
Greetings all,
I've just picked up an old Carl Fischer clarinet on eBay. It's very old, and very in need of repair. Unless someone here looks at the photos and tells me I have something valuable here, my plan was to use this clarinet as something to learn on...so if I mess up, I'm not going to worry too much. I really just want to teach myself to put in new pads, cork, etc. While I'm at it, I'd like to try and at least make it look nice, although I seriously doubt I can do much to make it sound nice.
The clarinet has a two cracks: 1) on that extends from the upper tenon down to the 2nd ring (see photos, this one has an additional ring about at the midpoint of the register key), and 2) the length of the barrel.
The thumb tone hole is missing the usual metal cylinder, and most of the tone holes are beginning to deteriorate...for the thumb tone hole, I'm assuming I could probably buy a replacement?
Just in case I've unearthed some rare and valuable artifact -- which I really doubt -- it is stamped "Carl Fischer" on the barrel, and "Carl Fischer New York" on the bell. Has a serial number on the upper piece 5536, and I can just make our "Made in Italy" on both the upper and lower pieces.
The tenon cork and pad replacements are pretty straightforward -- I think -- I'll just remove all the keys, measure them, and try and follow the instructions I've found online from Tom Ridenour and others. But...
For things like the deteriorating tone holes...is there a method to fix this?
Also, if you look at the photos, you'll see (particularly in the photo of the bell) that it appears that the lacquer is either mostly gone,...or someone tried to reapply some at some point because there are patches where the wood color is somewhat cloudy and other places where I can even feel that there is more lacquer on the wood (that is, you can feel the raised surface as well as see it). Any thoughts on what can be done to bring back the wood? Would one attempt to remove any remaining lacquer and reapply new? Or do you just add? Or neither? I've always liked clarinets where you can see the wood grain, and this is one of them. Just from a visual appearance, it would be nice to restore this to looking good, even if it doesn't really play.
Finally, how do you repair cracks? I've seen differing opinions (so I bet I'll get differing advice?) on whether you should use something like super glue or some other type, etc. Thoughts?
Thanks in advance!
Jeff
https://picasaweb.google.com/niol.ebay/CarlFischerClarinet?authuser=0&feat=directlink
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2012-01-04 01:04
I think the value of the clarinet is approximately zero. Restoration will be a heroic job, particularly because you ask about the basics and thus seem to have little experience.
Remember that a clarinet this old could well be at high pitch. Compare the total length with a modern clarinet.
Good luck. You'll need it.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chefmao
Date: 2012-01-04 01:10
Yes, I know...as I said, I'm more interested in learning to do the work than on restoring the instrument...would rather work on an instrument that I can't ruin...and from your response, you've confirmed my assumption that this instrument can't be made any worse!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2012-01-04 14:27
>>Just in case I've unearthed some rare and valuable artifact -- which I really doubt -- it is stamped "Carl Fischer" on the barrel, and "Carl Fischer New York" on the bell. Has a serial number on the upper piece 5536, and I can just make our "Made in Italy" on both the upper and lower pieces.
>>
I agree with Ken Shaw, and just want to add that Carl Fischer is a stencil brand name used by an important music store in New York City that dates back to the late 19th century. At different times, different companies made the instruments stencilled with the store name. One of those companies was Buffet. Stencils made by Buffet can be quite good players even though they're not worth much money and the early ones are often high-pitch. But, unfortunately, since your clarinet says, "Made in Italy," it's not made by Buffet or another major manufacturer.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2012-01-04 14:58
On the good side, even though the Italian-made Carl Fischer stencil clarinets are worth next to nothing on the market, they can be made to play well with a decent restoration (I had one maybe 6-7 years ago and it played nicely following a complete overhaul).
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: exclarineter
Date: 2012-01-04 21:52
I have an old Carl Fischer A clarinet (made in Paris) with a wrap-around octave key that is an amazing player. I actually like it much better for than the R13 Prestige that I have, though it doesn't have as much projection. When I got it, it needed a complete overhaul, but didn't have any significant structural damage. It had obviously been worked on by a master craftsman sometime in it's past, who undercut the tone-holes, etc. This one will have no value, but you can learn a lot on the project. As for the crack, treatment will depend on how bad. Some are fine with high-quality cyanoacrylate, some need to be pinned or "ringed" and may require some re-boring. Search the archives here for more information on that.
Good luck!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: DougR
Date: 2012-01-05 13:11
Wow. It looks like you have picked a perfect "mule" to attempt a multitude of repair techniques on. I doubt you could possibly make the poor old thing any worse than it is now.
I don't think quality clarinets have ever been "lacquered;" sometimes stain is applied where joints have uneven coloring due to coming from different grenadilla billets, but lacquer....last refuge of a scoundrel?
Even if all your attempts come out well, you still might have a piece of junk, and as long as you know that going in, what's the harm? Also, taking pride in one's own work, done to the best of one's ability.....priceless.
Good luck!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chefmao
Date: 2012-01-06 00:45
DougR - yes lacquer...I questioned that myself when I wrote it...but it does seem someone put something of the sort over some of the wood because I can see the drip patterns and it is raised and smooth compared to other parts...
Knowing I can't really destroy that which is already beyond repair, I removed the keys from the top today and tried literally scouring the wood a little with a kitchen scouring pad and a bit of water. To my surprise, I think the wood actually looks and feels a little better to the touch. Some of the grime is gone, and some of the shiny lacquer-like substance is too...but some remains nonetheless.
The scouring pad did a good job stripping the grime and corrosion from the rings, and they look nice and shiny now... Maybe too shiny compared to the rest of it! Just raises the bar on what I need to do to the keys now.
I don't think my methods so far would ever be out to use on a clarinet that I had a real future, but like anything, just getting cleaned up always helps.
I'll post some photos soon of the results thus far for those that are interested
For the keys...they appear to be nickel plate over brass or something like that. In a few places I can see a yellowish metal showing through while the rest is a dull silver color. Suggestions for getting them nice and shiny again? I noticed that there are some home silver plating kits...think they actually work?!
edit: I uploaded more photos to the same album linked before: https://picasaweb.google.com/niol.ebay/CarlFischerClarinet?authuser=0&feat=directlink
Post Edited (2012-01-06 21:04)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: exclarineter
Date: 2012-01-06 19:54
Sounds like you're off to a good start. The keys are most likely solid german silver (a nickel-silver alloy) judging by the age of the clarinet, but they could be plated. Super fine steel wool (0000 grade) will give the keys a good basic shine and works wonders for smoothing and cleaning the body of the clarinet. I use green/tan 3M bristle disks from MusicMedic and my dremmel for a final buffing - gets a great shine! This works well for the posts on the clarinet as well.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-01-07 09:25
For polishing up the body joints, pillars and rings by hand (or stropping), use strips of cotton torn from an old sheet or t-shirt and apply buffing compound to it (such as tripoli) and you'll be able to polish the body around all the pillars and also polish up the pillars and socket rings with it as well. It'll take out the fine scratches left from using Scotchbrite and wire wool.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chefmao
Date: 2012-01-22 14:12
Thanks again for the advice so far. The old Carl Fischer is nearly done and ready for to try out. I'll report back on that soon...in the meantime, bolstered by my early successes, I picked up yet another old clarinet. This one a Noblet 40 probably from the middle of last century.
I have a stuck screw on the register key. The screw head is not stripped, but I know if I keep just applying brute force, I will strip it. Anyone have suggestions on how to unstick a screw? Magical lubricants? Heat?
thanks!
Jeff
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-01-22 14:22
Use some kind of penetrating oil and apply heat. Then leave it for a few hours and repeat the same process. Do this several times and check progress by seeing how far you can undo the screw.
Worst case scenario if it's bound completely solid, you may have to break the thread off and punch the screw out from the key barrel (still applying oil and heating it), then make and fit a new screw.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dee
Date: 2012-01-25 14:14
I see that there are bands on the upper joint. This was part of the old way of repairing cracks. It does NOT mean it was a bad clarinet. Many fine clarinets crack and are fixed and play beautifully. However thought you might like to know.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chefmao
Date: 2012-01-26 01:16
I will post photos soon, but I have to pick it up. The final step needed some professional help. The tone hole chimneys turned out to be inserts separate from the rest of the body of the clarinet and they were falling apart. I had my local tech make new ones for scratch on a lathe. Work schedule has prevented me from picking it up as the local tech to me is 45 minutes away.
When I get it will also be my first chance to try playing it too since I had no tone hole chimneys, I couldn't even try it to truly verify my pad installations...keep your fingers crossed!
Thanks again for all the suggestions!
Jeff
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chefmao
Date: 2012-01-27 20:45
Here's a link to the photo album with some new photos of the clarinet.
https://picasaweb.google.com/niol.ebay/CarlFischerClarinet?authuser=0&feat=directlink
The photos labeled with "v5" are the most recent. There are now new tone hole chimneys that my local tech made from delrin. I played it for the first time. It isn't easy to make a sound, but with some adjustments to my how much mouthpiece I have in my mouth, etc it does play. Not that I expected magical notes to flow from it! I need to make a few more adjustments now that I've played it in some places...a little cork here and there, and I'm waiting for a micro-mesh cloth to arrive in the mail to give the wood a final buff. I never gave the keys a final buffing, but I think they look pretty good given the rest of it. I think it needs a bit of an aged look since it is old.
All in all, a good learning experience!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2012-01-27 21:23
Love it!
I always had a soft spot of old and neglected clarinets. Nice to see someone else too goes the extra mile in order to restore it rather than just convert it into a wall hanger or a lamp.
(currently looking for new victims as two of my refurbs rather unexpectedly landed in the laps of two kids)
--
Ben
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chefmao
Date: 2012-01-27 22:36
Glad you like it. Not sure my wife appreciates it as you do. As I saw in another post about the last clarinet you will ever own....there may not be a last one, except of course when my wife makes me stop!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2012-01-27 22:44
Look, if your wife approaches you with that look and the word "clarinet" on her lips, just ever so slowly turn your head towards her shoe rack and stammer "handbag".
Believe me, it works.
--
Ben
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: LJBraaten
Date: 2012-01-28 15:38
Ha! Lucky you! It would not work with mine, she rarely spends anything on clothes, etc., unless I can convince her that it's time (and I have to be VERY careful how I express it).
I won't complain, though, since as long as I'm careful and don't go too overboard she doesn't say much. Part of my implied retirement agreement.
Laurie
Laurie (he/him)
Post Edited (2012-01-28 17:05)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2012-01-28 23:34
But she must have a weak spot somewhere, no? I mean, I've yet to see a person who doesn't occasionally engage in retail therapy...?
--
Ben
Post Edited (2012-01-28 23:35)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
