 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: kdk
Date: 2012-01-09 00:50
I saw a picture on the classical music channel we had playing on our TV during dinner tonight. I looked like a bass clarinet with a neck that actually looped all the way around before ending in the mouthpiece. The photo was mostly of the player's head and you could only see the instrument down to a few inches below the top of the instrument body. It may have been a larger instrument than a bass (except that the neck it was black and appeared to be made of wood, not brass), but it was definitely a single reed and the mouthpiece looked like a bass mouthpiece. FWIW (it's probably completely meaningless) the picture was shown during a recording of a piece by Grieg played by the Halle Orchestra (*some*times the photos are actually connected in some way to the piece or the performer).
Is this likely to be a type of bass that's more popular in Europe or a different instrument of some kind? I've never seen a looped neck like that before.
Karl
Post Edited (2012-01-09 04:28)
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Author: DNBoone
Date: 2012-01-09 01:15
http://www.eppelsheim.com/kontrabass_klarinette.php?lang=en
Perhaps?
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Author: kdk
Date: 2012-01-09 02:05
No, that's made of brass and the neck is much longer and vertical between the curves. This neck was a circle that couldn't have been more than 3 or 4 inches in diameter. It went into a body that looked like a standard bass clarinet upper joint.
Thanks for the link, though.
Karl
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Author: DNBoone
Date: 2012-01-09 02:40
someone will know what you are talking about. I believe I have seen what you are talking about on thees forums but don't remember the maker myself.
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Author: davyd
Date: 2012-01-09 02:57
Perhaps what you saw was the special bass clarinet neck made by Charles Bay. It curves upwards so that the mouthpiece is an angle similar to the Bb, rather than horizontal.
Did Grieg write for bass clarinet at all? Perhaps this was a transcription.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2012-01-09 03:17
Never played or heard of a bass clarinet part in a piece by Grieg. I can't imagine what it could have been in a professional recording of a Grieg piece. I'm a professional bass clarinetist. Some of the East european basses do look different then the ones we tend to see over here. ESP eddiesclarinet.com
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
Post Edited (2012-01-09 03:21)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-01-09 03:32
The Halle's bass clarinettist is James Muirhead, but I can't find any more info about his bass clarinet.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2012-01-09 04:55
Well, in all likelihood, the photo and the piece had nothing to do with each other. That particular cable TV music channel show photos of Szell and Muti and other conductors regardless of who was conducting the recording being played and often show a piano or violin during a cello concerto, etc., so I doubt if there was a connection with Grieg (I've never seen a bass part part in a piece by Grieg either). More likely, if there was any connection at all it was that both the photo and the orchestra were not American.
Apparently, I'm not the only one never to have seen this before.
Karl
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Author: kdk
Date: 2012-01-09 04:58
No, that's actually about what my bass neck looks like, although I had it made by my local tech, not David Hite.
This one was a loop, a circle that went down, around and then up, around and back to the player.
Karl
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2012-01-09 05:17
Was the picture on for long? Is it possible the photo was confusing and made it seem like a loop e.g. something else in the photo behind the neck, etc. and that you imagined the loop...? Either way, I don't know, I've never seen a bass clarinet with a loopy neck.
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Author: blazian
Date: 2012-01-09 14:28
Are you describing a compact or opera bass clarinet like on this page?
- Martin
Post Edited (2012-01-09 14:30)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2012-01-09 14:41
Certainly possible, although it was shown two or three times. But it could have been something else that I combined with the bass clarinet in my own mind. What I'm getting so far is that there's no obvious, simple explanation for this and the instrument, if it exists as I thought I saw it, isn't well known by anyone who has responded to this. So, whatever it turns out to be, I don't feel so left out in not ever having seen it before. 
Karl
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Author: kdk
Date: 2012-01-09 14:43
Looked very similar to the 1875 Albert in the picture.
Karl
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Author: kdk
Date: 2012-01-09 14:48
The neck looked similar. The photo on TV didn't show enough of the body to compare. I's hard to tell how much of the compact bass in the Clarinetland picture is metal and how much of the upper section (if any) is wood or wood-like. The TV photo was definitely black like wood or composite on top.
Karl
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Author: blazian
Date: 2012-01-09 14:59
The mystery remains unsolved!
A wood neck of that shape sounds pretty hard to craft. That would be interesting to see firsthand.
- Martin
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Author: kdk
Date: 2012-01-09 15:17
The neck isn't wood. It's metal and looked shiny, like silver-plate.
The *upper section of the body* looked like wood, like a normal bass clarinet. I only emphasize that because contrabasses are made completely, AFAIK, of metal, generally brass. This was definitely not a contra, by comparison to any contra I've ever seen.
Karl
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-01-09 17:04
James Muirhead's bass pictured in the photo is an older Selmer, probably from the '70s.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2012-01-22 18:59
Another of the Grieg Norwegian Dances came on today - apparently from the same Barbirolli/Halle recording as the last time, and the same photos began cycling on the screen, including the one of the bass clarinet. Does anyone recognize it (or, for that matter, the player)?
(I thought I'd attached a picture of the TV photo - it doesn't seem to have uploaded with this post. I'll work on it.)
Post Edited (2012-01-22 19:04)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-01-22 19:03
Barbirolli places it a fair while ago - he was with the Halle from the early '40s through to 1970.
Here we go - just found this: http://www.halle.co.uk/conductors.aspx
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2012-01-22 19:05)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2012-01-22 19:06
I need to leave for a rehearsal in about ten minutes, so I can't try to re-send the picture now. I've never uploaded an image to the BB before. I do have the picture, though, and I'll try to upload it again tonight.
Karl
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Author: rsholmes
Date: 2012-01-23 13:41
Looks a little like the Albert instruments in the photos linked by Ken Shaw. BUT... the neck loops around to the left side of the instrument while on the Alberts they loop around to the right (and, no, it doesn't appear either photo is reversed).
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Author: kdk
Date: 2012-01-23 17:08
Yes, it does. The curve looks maybe a little less round in the ebay pictures, but it's closer to the TV photo than anything else I've seen. Do you know anything about these "opera" basses? Why they're made that way? Why the reference to opera?
Karl
Post Edited (2012-01-23 17:53)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2012-01-23 17:57
Well, could be, but the problem in a pit isn't usually up and down, it's sideways. As long as there's enough vertical room for the player's head to fit, a standard bass would fit as well.
Karl
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-01-23 21:17
As it's an Albert or simple system bass, it'll most likely only descend to low E.
I've used my low C bass in theatre pits with no problem - even when playing the reed 3 part in 'West Side Story' where it's one of eight instruments to juggle with (or nine if you add an Eb clarinet to that).
I wonder if that coiled crook is any worse for condensation accumulation compared to a standard S-bend crook?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2012-01-23 21:56
If it has a water key ("a.k.a. "spit valve") on the bottom of the crook it should behave like a baritone sax in terms of moisture accumulation and disposal, I would think. In other words, no big deal.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-01-23 22:25
Mind you, on these coiled crooks the mouthpiece is angled upwards so there's a fairly low risk of any backwash!
I had that with my contrabassoon as the crooks angled downwards so the condensation ran back down to the reed. But I reangled (or bent) them both so that doesn't happen so much now. It was brand new when I bought it instead of having done the rounds with who knows what lurking in there!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2012-01-24 01:11
Bonnie-Sue is our own contragirl.
She has some good links on her page, including OddMusic, which has over 100 pages of really weird instruments, many with short MP3 sound clips. If you have an afternoon to while away, it's fascinating.
Go to http://www.oddmusic.com/gallery/hapi-drum.html and keep clicking on Next.
Ken Shaw
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