 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2012-01-20 14:00
http://www.lefreque.com/home
Snake oil for the credulous. €39,95, and of course you absolutely must have it in gold plated silver €199,95. Not to mention the fact that you need four, one for each joint, or probably eight, for the fronts and backs.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2012-01-20 14:36
And how is this product any different than the various other panaceas espoused by certain readers of this BB? If someone's thought process is 'faith-based' rather than rational, than anything can be good (especially if it's already been purchased, because we MUST feel good about the money we've spent). Humans have an amazing capacity for self-delusion, as well as a total lack of rigor in their assessments of things, outside of some scientists and engineers who sometimes do test things properly.
My personal "snake oil" list of clarinet-related items:
Hamilton plating on keys.
Choice of plating on ligatures.
"Voicing grooves" in clarinet bells.
"Power barrels" (sorry about that, Doc!)
Fancy barrels (external shape, exotic woods).
Complex ligatures.
Body material (ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL, which is never the case).
Wooden bells on bass clarinets.
Thickness or type of plating on bass clarinet necks (sorry, Ed!).
I'm sure I've missed quite a few. Help me out. Please don't get defensive, either, this posting is not a personal attack on anyone.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jeroen
Date: 2012-01-20 14:56
I happen to know a few players on sax, flute or clarinet that are really surprised about the effect on sound and feeling. Yes, it is a Dutch invention so I am 'close to the fire' (a Dutch saying).
I decided not to try it because there is a risk I might like it. :-)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2012-01-20 16:05
And the fastest way to sound worse than Acker Bilk: Vibrator reeds with voicing slots. ![[hot]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/hot.gif)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: EEBaum
Date: 2012-01-20 17:04
I have a set (picked it up when they were showing it at Music China, paid way less than retail). It does make a significant difference in response on my Eb (it doesn't do much for my contra). Makes it much easier to put a ton of air into the horn, enough of a difference that it's beyond the placebo margin of error (it's a "holy crap this feels different" level). Too much at times, actually, as it was so free-blowing that it became hard to NOT overblow a couple notes.
Forgot about it, haven't messed with it in a couple months. Think I'll pull it out and do some tests with recording, see if the difference is audible to others, or if it's mostly a matter of the vibrations more easily transferring to my head.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: alanporter
Date: 2012-01-20 18:25
So, first they invent a cure....then find a problem for the cure to correct. I always thought it should be the other way round.
tiaroa@shaw.ca
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: alto gether
Date: 2012-01-20 18:31
I have seen the error of my ways! A welded-on metal mouthpiece will surely cure all my squeaks. Or glued-on, for my standard Bb, as soon as I decide which mpc and barrel I want to use forever.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdk
Date: 2012-01-20 19:17
That's not fair, Ken. Did they ever come harder than #2-1/2? 
Karl
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2012-01-20 19:21
Ken, I got a laugh from your mention of the 'slotted-bark' Vibrator reeds. Even worse than those were the Charpen reeds with a large hole right in the heart of the vamp! I still have some of those -- my technique to make them halfway usable was to fill the hole with a large blob of epoxy, which ultimately was a waste of time because in other respects the reeds were pretty much garbage anyway.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2012-01-20 22:28
> I'm sure I've missed quite a few. Help me out. Please don't get defensive,
> either, this posting is not a personal attack on anyone.
Oh, I could add Rovner's Turbo Charger thingy.
Seriously - these gadgets may all fine and dandy; the problem is...the majority of who buys them would better invest that money into a bottle of beer for every hour in the shed.
(When my tone is lacking substance, it's not because of a missing doohickey around the lyre screw, it's because my ring finger failed to cover the tone hole at the first attempt, just because I couldn't be arsed to practice enough for that concert. Now that's the plain bitter truth.)
Don't get me wrong - I'm in the placebo camp: if your thingy makes you sound better, we can hear it. It might not be the gadget's fault, but hey, who cares.
--
Ben
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-01-21 00:34
I wouldn't be so quick to rush to judgement on this one guys. There is a case for the isolation factor with the cork surrounds that we have between pieces. Listen to the difference one hears on ringless barrels, or Rossi clarinets without the break between top and bottom joint.
Although I would be REALLY easy to make our own for experimental purposes. The idea is all that matters not so much the "real lefreque."
.................Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ursa
Date: 2012-01-21 09:23
With the LeFreque, an accessory has finally been introduced that could be installed on all the wind instruments I perform on: clarinet, tuba, and organ.
Dave's snake oil list made me giggle--I snicker every time I look through Yamaha's clarinet literature and see the claims they make for Hamilton plating. Do the Yamaha engineers even believe this propaganda?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2012-01-21 12:13
Paul Aviles wrote:
> There is a case for the isolation factor with the cork
> surrounds that we have between pieces.
True, but I seriously doubt that a metal bridge that is attached with rubber bands is going to transmit vibrations any better than a cork joint will.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2012-01-21 12:58
Ken Shaw wrote,
> And the fastest way to sound worse than Acker Bilk: Vibrator reeds with voicing slots. >
Apparently those used to sell pretty well, judging from how many used Vibrator reeds I've found in old clarinet cases. I threw all the used ones out, because (aside from the ick-factor of playing somebody else's mungy dirty old reed) a lot of reeds in old clarinet cases seem to have been used by life forms other than clarinet players. When I finally found some pristine Vibrators that appeared to be new-old-stock and tried them out, it may not have been a fair test. The reeds were very old stock indeed, possibly deteriorated simply from age. Also, as an amateur, I sound worse than Acker Bilk even with a good reed. (Okay, full disclosure: I sorta *like* Acker Bilk.) But I heard no reason to lament the demise of Vibrator reeds.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: DougR
Date: 2012-01-21 13:24
There was an article in the New Yorker recently about this (I have it here someplace, er, maybe in that pile of papers over there, or THAT one over there, or did I throw it out??) and part of the thrust of the article was that the placebo effect MIGHT be absolutely valid--a noticeable proportion of patients in one study improved on placebo even though they KNEW, and were TOLD, it was a placebo, i.e. had nothing intrinsic in the "stuff" to make them better. I thought the article was tremendously interesting (being a subscriber I'm supposed to be able to access the article online, but that's not working out at the moment) so here's a link to a blog I haven't encountered before that riffs on the article:
http://ordinary-gentlemen.com/russellsaunders/2011/12/15/take-two-tic-tacs-and-call-me-in-the-morning/
We've had endless discussions here focused on numerous manifestations of what on first blush seems like "schmuck bait": including miracle hifi cables that cost hundreds of dollars per foot, sterling silver foot joint extensions for flutes, cryogenically freezing instruments, and on and on). But what if research is suggesting that this or that talisman actually improves my experience of playing an instrument, even when I know that acoustic science and physics (i.e., the "experts") regard the talisman as inert?
It's a fascinating subject, and to me one of the lessons is, we don't really know a lot about it yet.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2012-01-21 13:46
My father was a dermatologist. When a patient came in for removal of warts, he did not cut them out, and, at least at the time, there was no effective medication.
He advised patients, in his best authoritative doctor's voice, to go out into the woods and find an old stump that had rotted out in the middle and held a puddle of water. He told them that "stump water" was the infallible cure for warts.
He said that in his practice it worked every time and that all dermatologists knew about and used the stump water cure.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Gregory Williams
Date: 2012-01-21 15:57
Hand Raised,
"I'm sorry Maestro. During the performance I need you to give me me a moment between movements to change my lefreQue from the Bb clarinet to the A clarinet."
The manual clearly shows that there are four possible places to position your lefreQue. I've ordered 11 gold plated lefreQues for my 3 clarinets.
Post Edited (2012-01-21 16:01)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: oca
Date: 2012-01-22 06:43
To mock the responses of the gullible and ignorant:
"personal preference"
To mock the business strategy of these companies:
"our product is different, and you must try to understand"
Mix the two and you get people willing to unnecessarily spend hundreds of dollars.
Oh how I miss objectivity and science.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bradfordlloyd
Date: 2012-01-22 13:11
Careful! If people think about this long and hard enough, they might start to question whether Buffet makes "the best clarinets in the whole world forever and ever and always and in all situations." What? You mean there's marketing involved with Buffet's clear dominance? You mean it's not scientifically proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that Buffet is the best?
Just sayin'.....before we throw stones, we may want to consider our own glass houses. (Not that everyone drank the Buffet Kool Aid, but oh-so-many have....)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tobin
Date: 2012-01-22 13:14
"Oh how I miss objectivity and science."
And how far do those two principles take us in evaluating art? The production of beautiful sound is the business that we're in -- and it is far more subjective than objective.
I think most of us read the Double Blind Stradivarius test that NPR put on -- you'd think that in the hands of professional violinists that the Strad's would stand out, but that wasn't the case at all. How does objectivity or science help discriminate which produces the best sound? The answer is that any of those instruments could have been chosen as the best and may have been the best for each individual, without any one instrument objectively being defined as better than the rest.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/deceptivecadence/2012/01/02/144482863/double-blind-violin-test-can-you-pick-the-strad
Ursa --
This is a quote from David Niethamer, a Yamaha artist, from about a year ago.
Quote:
Interesting - I tried about a dozen clarinets at the Yamaha Atelier in NYC - silver keys and Hamilton plated. I did this because I wanted to put to rest the Yamaha web site BS stating that the Hamilton plating give those clarinets a warmer, darker sound (or whatever they claim!) During my trial EVERY Hamilton plated CSG played better than the best silver plated CSG. Of course, YMMV, etc., etc. I'm guessing that there is something else about the Hamilton plated clarinets that Yamaha isn't disclosing. Just a guess.
I've only played a couple, but each Yamaha with Hamilton keys I've played does have a hell of a sound.
James
Gnothi Seauton
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: DrewSorensenMusic
Date: 2012-01-22 15:39
I wonder if you could use this technique to "fake" your students into playing better?
E.g.- "Ok Timmy, I'm gonna place this piece of tape on top of your barrel. This will make it easier for you to play between registers."
Maybe that would give the student the confidence to blow through the notes, inevitable helping him perform. (I guess you'd have to tell him later that it was just for show, unless he starts really playing well. Then don't break what's fixed"
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: oca
Date: 2012-01-22 18:50
Science and objectivity is perverse.
A Stanford professor has been researching the psychological effects of color. There's a long video on Youtube of him summarizing his work, but I doubt anyone would be interested as subjectivity is so dominant it would take a fool to say otherwise.
Another study has shown the cause and reason that we feel "goose-bumps" or that pleasurable feeling when listening to music. They scientific term they call it is music evoked frisson for the few of you interested.
There is a reason why things taste the way they do is not only chemical, but also psychological. Things that harm us taste bad and the things that are beneficial taste good for a reason: survival.
There are the beginning footsteps in exploring the objectivity in sight and sound and taste; I wouldn't be surprised if there was a person analyzing the sense of smell.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: oca
Date: 2012-01-22 18:59
Early humans used to think the act of raining was a subject of subjectivity.
When the gods were happy, they rewarded the farmers with rain. When the gods were angry, there were volcanic eruptions and earthquakes.
Now you can explain rain with science and now its not so subjective.
You may say your definition of a good tone is subjective, but just you wait... just you wait.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tobin
Date: 2012-01-22 22:45
Email me when there is a quantifiable way to evaluate both the sound I produce and the level by which it will be appreciated by the audience.
Such an event can only happen when there is unified archetype of sound -- and although we are moving towards (or are in) a period of international sound, it will not always be so.
James
Gnothi Seauton
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: C.Elizabeth07
Date: 2012-01-23 01:01
If I'm just really stupid feel free to tell me...
BUT
I do not get how this is supposed to work or how rubber banding something to your instrument is supposed to change the sound and make you playing more emotional....
however I do like the idea of putting tape on a students instrument so they think its easier to play....
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2012-01-23 05:08
>> or how rubber banding something to your instrument is supposed to change the sound and make you playing more emotional.... <<
As you play you realize how it makes no diffeerence, which gets you angree because of how much you paid for it, which gets you very emnotional...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: oca
Date: 2012-01-25 07:46
The information is already out there.
Better to get the information from a primary source than a secondary source like me.
Post Edited (2012-01-27 09:33)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
