 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: CuriousClarinet
Date: 2012-01-17 04:05
Quick Edit: I swear I didn't notice there was a post title with almost the exact same name (kind of different subject) Sorry... I didn't purposely copy it. So I changed it... Anyways, on to the question =p
Finding the correct mouthpiece has always been something of a challenge for me. I've tried a few very different facings. I use to play on a M30, but switched to a Clark Fobes CF+, (mainly because I use a SF on my bass clarinet and was very happy it..now I realize that just because it works on bass it might not work on soprano... but anyways...) I thought for a year or two I was very happy with the results I got with CF+... until recently I switched back to the M30 out of curiosity. I was amazed by how different the tone was. I'd always thought mouthpieces would never really change how the clarinet itself actually sounded, but the tone these two produced was entirely different. The CF+ sounded very "jazz-ish", perhaps even plasticly and very uncontrolled, the M30, however, wasn't capable of the same dynamic range, but its tone was much more controlled and even. I was surprised by the difference. In fact, in a few weeks of playing the M30, I couldn't even manage more than a few squeaks from the Clark Fobes mouthpiece. My only complaint about the M30 is how resistant it is. I use V12 3.5 reeds, as I always have... but it seems the M30 takes ALOT of air to play. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to make it less resistant? Would going down a reed size cause problems with my tone? Are there any similar mouthpieces to the M30 that I should possibly look into trying (that perhaps aren’t so resistant)? What are your experiences with these two mouthpieces?
Post Edited (2012-01-17 04:07)
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Author: Pastor Rob
Date: 2012-01-17 08:33
My experience with the M30 was to give it away after a few days trying to make it work. I have never tried a Fones mpc. The Portnoy BPO2 works great for me on any of my clarinets.
Pastor Rob Oetman
Leblanc LL (today)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-01-17 09:40
There are a lot of factors involved in your dilemma. Many have success on this Board with the M30 but it does have rather thick rails which makes it a bit awkward for me (less responsive).
It sounds like going down a reed strength will help you. But a direct comparison as you describe it to your first mouthpiece is unfair. Adjust yourself to one mouthpiece....... take a few weeks to 'settle in.'
................Paul Aviles
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Author: Bb R13 greenline
Date: 2012-01-17 11:23
I just switched to the m30 recently the dynamic range isn't small I like that I can't get any louder but can get a lot softer. Maybe your using the same amount of mouthpiece as on the cf+? U need to check where the mouthpiece touches the reed and make sure your lip touches that point. The m30 takes a lot of mouth. I play v12 3s on it and it's fine for me
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Author: kdk
Date: 2012-01-17 13:33
Different mouthpieces have different natural characters. The trick for the player is to find the one produces what he/she wants hear most easily. The Fobes mouthpieces (at least the sopranos) definitely have a naturally livelier sound and quicker response than most of the Vandoren mouthpieces I've ever tried (but I haven't tried an M30). So it isn't really surprising that you'd have a preference and feel more comfortable with one than the other. That's why there are so many competing mouthpieces and reeds on the market. They each offer something different.
The only way really to answer your questions about using a softer reed strength is to buy a box of the softer reeds and try it. Keep in mind that you *can* feel an annoying kind of resistance from a reed that's too soft for the mouthpiece - slow response and limited dynamic range can come from both ends of the resistance spectrum. Is the sound fuzzy and the dynamic range limited at the loud end with the V12 3-1/2s? That might indicate too hard a reed. If the throat tones are clear but the dynamic range is narrow and the whole thing feels logy and slow to respond, it may be that the reed is too soft and is actually closing.
Karl
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Author: CuriousClarinet
Date: 2012-01-17 15:19
From what kdk describes, I'm pretty sure the 3.5 are too hard. If I soak the reed in a cup of water for 5+ minutes I can play the M30 with no problem... but that seems a little lengthy. It just seems to me that a 3 strength reed is something a less experienced player would use... probably just a wrong stereotype, but my band director has always told us anything under 3.5 is too soft. If she had her way, everyone would be playing on a 5, though! =p
Since the thicker rails cause more resistance, and I like the quick response of the CF+, would trying a clark fobes mp with the same facing as the M30 have a similar tone to it? Or would it just be the same as the CF+? Personally, my biggest determining factor is the tone. I can work around the rest. But the unresponsiveness is a little obnoxious.
Paul, maybe I didn't describe well enough in my original post. I've used the CF+ for a year or two, but previous to that I played on the M30, a month (or so) ago I decided to try the M30 again out of curiousity. It took a few days for me to get use the the different tone, but when I switched back to the CF+ I was surprised to hear I didn't really care for its sound anymore. I played on the M30 for a few more weeks, and then since I had a lesson scheduled, took it to my private instructor to ask his opinion. He agreed that the M30 definitly sounded good, but he wanted to hear me play the CF+ to compare. So I attempted to play the same piece on the CF+ and was surprised (and embarressed) that all I could do was squeak my way through it. I actually only got through a few measures before I stopped and told him I was switching back to the M30. =p I didn't realize before that incident that mouthpieces required so much adjusting.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2012-01-17 16:13
CuriousClarinet wrote:
> If I soak the reed in a cup of water for 5+ minutes I can play
> the M30 with no problem... but that seems a little lengthy.
Well, there are no rules (despite what you sometimes read here on the BB). If it works and doesn't have other unwanted side effects...
> It just seems to me that a 3 strength reed is something a less
> experienced player would use... probably just a wrong
> stereotype, but my band director has always told us anything
> under 3.5 is too soft. If she had her way, everyone would be
> playing on a 5, though! =p
This is the kind of nonsense that usually comes from band directors who don't play clarinet. They've read something somewhere, probably also written by a non-clarinetist, and taken it as gospel because they've no (or limited) experience of their own. If #3s work better, just don't let her see your reeds.
> Since the thicker rails cause more resistance, and I like the
> quick response of the CF+, would trying a clark fobes mp with
> the same facing as the M30 have a similar tone to it?
Two strikes against this. First, I don't know if Clark makes a mouthpiece with the same facing as an M30. You'd have to ask him to make one with a custom facing, which he might be willing to do (you'd have to ask him directly). But, second, there still are other important differences between the two mouthpiece designs, and I doubt (without having tried it) that you'd ever get a Fobes mouthpiece to produce the tone you get from a Vandoren of any kind. You almost certainly need to choose, and then find the way with reeds and embouchure to get the best response possible from the one you've chosen.
Karl
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Author: Bb R13 greenline
Date: 2012-01-17 18:00
Their is no correlation between reed strength and good playing. Most proffesionals play reeds from strengths 3-4 but that just cause thats the middle and most common if you sound great on a 5 or a 1 use it, because it sounds good not because the fact that it's harder makes you better.
Also tone in my opinion( I'm a highschooler but I'd say I'm fairly advanced) should not be the first requirement of a mouthpiece, it does after all have to play intune and be flexible and have a good dynamic range. After all that than i think the tone should be considered
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Author: CuriousClarinet
Date: 2012-01-17 22:00
Hm... well, maybe I should just try the softer reed and call the M30 good? No suggestions on other mouthpieces to try? I tried (I think this was what it was called) a 5RV lyre once but it honestly sounded almost identical to the M30, so not worth the price difference to me.
And for those that are interested, the link below lists comparable facings to different clark fobes mouthpieces. According to that, perhaps I should try the Europa 2?
http://www.clarkwfobes.com/mp-chart.html
Of course there are other things to consider when buying a mouthpiece... but playing in tune is just a given. If I play a mouthpiece and it doesn't play in tune, I don't really care what it sounds like, I'm not going to use it. Flexibility is nice, as is dynamic range, but with a little more air support those things can be altered fairly easily. Tone, on the other hand, is probably the hardest thing for (at least me) to change. It's just kind of... a part of you. Everyone's tone is different and as unique as their fingerprint. So when I buy any part of a clarinet tone is probably the first thing I consider. (being in tune aside) I've also once read, in a Klose book, that tone is the most important aspect of a person's playing and shouldn't be compromised by anything. That said, I'm also just a senior in high school, far from anything professional, but I've played for nine years (not that long compared to many, I realize) and feel some what competent when it comes to my clarinet ability. But everyone has different clarinet playing ideals, so it makes sense that priorities are different!
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Author: Clarimeister
Date: 2012-01-18 03:34
I tried the CF+ for while myself and also felt that while it was an extremely free-blowing and easy responding mouthpiece to play on, the downside was that it was TOO free blowing for me and too buzzy sounding. It could have just been that mouthpiece, but I'm not sure. I have an M30 that I played on for a few months and decided it just was not for me. A lot people that have M30s love them for their tone, but complain that the response is rather sluggish and very resistant (my reasoning for disliking the M30). My suggestion is to try something else. I would try maybe an M13Lyre. Those have fantastic tone and very good response. The only problem with them is that it has a tendency to not be able to project or play very loud, at least for me, there are many pro's that use the M13Lyre in orchestras. Another good option that has a very nice tone would be the B40. I didn't really like the B40Lyre, just was too open for me, but the B40 had a very similar sound to the M30 but was much less resistant and more flexible in the sound. If you have the money, I would talk to Clark and tell him exactly what you're looking for. Mention that the CF+ was too lively but you loved the response but you liked the tone of the M30. Something like that. You can venture out to other mouthpiece craftsmen to seek out a mouthpiece that fits you. Me, personally, I use a Gregory Smith "Old Chedeville Style" 1++ and couldn't be happier. Fantastic tone colour, tone, response, articulation and flexibility within all those categories. Good luck in your search, and I hope this helped!
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