 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ramsa
Date: 2012-01-17 20:00
So, it's a good idea to sand flat the table side of factory reeds with fine sandpaper? I think I'm going to experiment on a few of mine at home...
Do alot of players do this? (Maybe I've been missing out...)
This is a genuine signature.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2012-01-17 20:29
Essential that the paper is backed up with an absolutely flat suface e.g. plate glass.
Even better if paper is glued to this surface to reduce risk of rounding of reed edges.
I mostly use the etched glass Vandoren surface plate myself, but it is pricey for what it is.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-01-17 20:40
I've got a double sided sanding plate made from a small sheet of glass (from a reed case) with 500 grit glued on one side and 1200 grit glued on the other. I use it either for sanding the entire underside or mostly for just thinning down the tip with (sanding the top side).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2012-01-17 20:47
ramsa wrote:
>
> Do alot of players do this? (Maybe I've been missing out...)
>
A lot of players don't. If you find it helpful - if reeds play better when you do this, then it's good for you to do.
Karl
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2012-01-17 22:08
"Do alot of players do this? (Maybe I've been missing out...)"
I think most clarinetist do. The great players as well as players learning how to do this adjusting from their teachers. I feel every teacher should know how to do this type of work. Added to this I like to take the other side of sandpaper what looks a bit waxy, usually a form of yellow and rub the reeds on that, only after you've made your adjustments. The wax kind of seals the reeds so the reeds will last a bit longer, vibrate well, and keep the reeds from badly warping out of control. I like wetting the paper on both sides, I feel the really fine dust, when wet, again helps flatten the reeds evenly and continues to help seal. Have you ever seen really good wood workers? They always use wet/dry sandpaper and wet this very fine sandpaper actually called wet dry paper, not sandpaper to get rid of sctatches and seal the wood, the final stage before rubbing the furniture or whatever with wax, for a scratchless grain look. No nicks.
I totally agree that you need a flat piece of glass to do this tricky work. Why is it tricky? Sometimes just adjusting a reed within the thickness of a human hair, in the wrong area, such as the tip, will wreck the reed, therefore I actually prefer using a very sharp reed knife. Also, when sanding the reeds I never sand the tip area. This area is sometimes only .005" 5 thousandths of an inch, about the thinkness of copy paper and computer printing paper. If you sand this area, be ready for some sqeaks. Don't throw the reed out yet, try clipping the tip of the reed and most likely you will have saved the reed. Yippie, you just saved a few bucks!
Here's the deal on this topic. The real truth, coming from 15 years at Rico. Rico used 220 course sand paper. Not wet/dry paper. For many years I asked if they would use wet/dry sand paper to seal the reeds with very light sand paper; 600 wet dry paper. I was also on the Research and Development team and had trouble getting the team on course. Money was the issue. Well they never have, so most likely they never will. The players themselves really need to do something to seal the reeds. I also use the back of wet/dry paper with the wax type of wet dry paper to seal the top of the reeds, the vamp area as well. You can't get a flat tip using 220 grit sandpaper.
Well one of the reasons I often make my own reeds. I have years of tubes thats really great cane fom France. Sometimes the cane coming from France and Argentina doesn't work, so I will make a few reeds from my stash.
220 grit is just wrong. It's that simple. Attention Rico - see all of the people having trouble with your course reeds? You can't control the tip evenly using 220 sandpaper.
Rico - shame on you! You are BAD people, just bad!!! Buy Vandoen like I do!This is so much fun!
Again Rico - shame on you!!! BAD BAD BAD
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2012-01-17 23:23)
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2012-01-18 02:33
I see zero evidence that players need to sand the reeds to seal them. Rico Reserve Classics are a joy to play as they are, btw.
Furthermore, sanding is only going to open up the possibility of taking a perfectly flat reed and making it not flat. It's really not easy to do well, but very easy to screw up.
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2012-01-18 03:54
Sanding reeds, vamp or back, doesn't "seal" them.
B.
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Author: ramsa
Date: 2012-01-18 12:45
Thanks for all the info. I'm pretty much experienced with wood finishes, having built custom displays for 20+ years and running a millshop that fabricated solid surface countertops. The solid surface would get into some very fine polish treatments, and customers can get really picky about fit/finish.
I figured if there were some "bad" reeds haunting me that there's not alot of danger in using/abusing a small amount of sandpaper on "re-crafting" on them.
Didn't have time to mess with it last night, as I got caught up in practicing my 1/16th notes...
I have some materials to use, and have reshaped some of my guitar saddles in the same type of way. Just never really thought much about doing reeds.
It'll be fun to experiment with. As a beginner, it sure can't hurt my sound...
Thanks!
This is a genuine signature.
Post Edited (2012-01-18 12:47)
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Author: LJBraaten
Date: 2012-01-18 15:46
I also sand the butt end of the reed (edit: I think I saw this on Eddies clarinet page.) Lastly, I hold the reed at an angle to lightly sand the back edge and corners, where the butt end meets the flat side of the reed. I do this to catch any small fragments that might be left behind from the cane cutting process. (Note the jagged edges left behind after cutting a piece of lumber.) I don't think this will do any harm since there is still plenty of flat reed surface laying on the table.
Laurie (he/him)
Post Edited (2012-01-19 03:35)
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2012-01-19 00:02
If anyone has some questions feel free in emailing me and I will be happy to go into great detail about this subject. My studies also include the use of microscopes, assorted dyes, and very special measuring tools. This is a subject I can really get into with a phone conversation and or long detailed emails.
I'd never confront players opinions about the study of reeds, because it's sort of like the study of mouthpieces; perhaps there isn't a right or wrong answer here. I surely can write about 50 pages regarding reeds, from the start of growing the cane to its final stage of adjusting reeds, at the same time someone else can do the same thing with perhaps their studies of reeds. Whatver works for people.
One of these days, most likely this year I'll have a website set up and players can comment about what works for them as well as how I and others adjust reeds, in a music sense as well as scientific studies. Like mouthpieces, some will agree some will not. For example a lot of players can't and don't play Chedevilles, others are happy with the old Buffet and Selmer, as well as the newer Vandoren mouthpieces.
I totally agree with LJBraaten work. Actually part of sealing a reed is closing the fibers at the butt of the reed.
In some ways I agree with just throwing out the bad reeds and get back to practicing. Adjusting reeds can take up valuable, sometimes very limited practice time that is costly if you have to mess with reeds.
This is a really great subject to talk about.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2012-01-23 05:22)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2012-01-19 05:10
>> I think most clarinetist do. <<
At least statistically of what I see, by far most don't.
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Author: Klarnetisto
Date: 2012-01-19 14:26
David Pino describes the sanding process in his book. He suggests that ordinary binder paper is abrasive enough to sand a reed, so that actual sandpaper may not be necessary. I have found this to be true.
I am also an organist, and I recently revoiced a number of organ reed pipes, which have a sounding apparatus essentially similar to a clarinet mouthpiece and reed (except made of brass). Two excellent organ builders instructed me to sand the reed ("tongue") and mouthpiece ("shallot") surfaces with ultra-fine sandpaper to a mirror finish. Of course, this made me think of Pino's clarient reed sanding procedure.
I've worked with two organs recently where those brass surfaces in the reed pipes had been corroded due to excessive environmental humidity. The pipes were making a poor tone, and suffered from tuning instability. I remember in particular a pipe that would tune sharp or flat, but not settle on the correct pitch. Once I polished its shallot and tongue, however, the pipe immediately snapped to attention and tuned with dead-on accuracy, and stayed there.
This tells me that not only should a clarinet mouthpiece have a completely regular facing with no irregularities whatsoever, but also that the underside of the reed needs to be absolutely as smooth as possible. Anything less than that will compromise the tone, response and stability.
BTW these organ builders also emphasized the need for the sanding surface to be absolutely flat, and recommended using plate glass under the sandpaper. So, yes, one must avoid the danger of damaging the reed's flatness while sanding. But I'm still convinced of the importance of having the under surface of the reed absolutely smooth, so sanding is definitely worth the effort.
Klarnetisto
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2012-01-19 17:09
I use 600 grit paper and the flat piece of glass from a Ridenour ATG reed balancing system.
I'm looking to smooth the factory finish (which is always pretty rough). My standard of smoothness is a Forestone synthetic reed.
Before I play a new reed, I put the 600 grip paper on the glass and then rub the reed across it to flatten the back. I press down on the vamp of the reed with a finger. That might bevel the back and increase the tip opening, but it can only amount to a few hundredths of a millimeter, so I don't worry about it.
Then, I take the sandpaper off of the glass plate and hole the reed down by its butt. To smooth the vamp, I put the edge of the sandpaper over it and never slide the sandpaper off of the reed. That assures that I won't catch the tip with the sand paper and split the reed. I just polish it smooth.
This operation removes very little material; it just smooths the reed. Maybe, it also seals the pores. Maybe.
At this point, try putting the butt of the reed in your mouth and breathing in. I think you'll be amazed at how porous the reed is. I think that if you were really relaxed, you could survive a long time breathing through just a couple of cane Bb clarinet reeds.
With the reed smoothed, I start breaking them in. 10-minutes play, each for 4 reeds at a time. After a couple of cycles, I check for balance. If a reed is unbalanced, I'll balance with the ATG sanding block using 220 or 320 sandpaper. When it is balanced, I'll re-do the polishing with 600 grit sandpaper.
After using a reed, I'll rinse it in running water while scraping the "lip scum" off of it, blot it dry and put into a flattening reed case.
I'll give the back side the occasional re-polish.
Polishing my reeds and rotating them (8 reeds) has more than doubled their lives.
Bob Phillips
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