 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Venancio Rius-Marti
Date: 1999-03-30 01:17
Bb German system clarinet:
(the inscription say)
V. Kohlert Sons Makers,
Graslitz Czecho-Slovakia
Bb L.P. 10815
I would appreciate any information about
the makers,age,history...
Thanks
Venancio
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Author: Dee
Date: 1999-03-30 02:08
According to my encyclopedia, Czechoslovakia first became a country in 1918. It was then taken over by Germany and dissolved in 1938. By the time the country was reborn after World War II, I believe that the LP (low pitch) and HP (high pitch) designations, were no longer in use.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 1999-03-30 18:43
My only A Cl is a good Kohlert , Winnenden [Made in Germany]ser no 23326 [on Bell !!], and have no idea of age, but its wood condition is excellent. WW 2 vintage? Also have an old [simple system ?] oboe V Kohlert Sons Makers Graslitz CS [I have seen Kraslice elsewhere]. Below [on bell]is a series of "medals" [circles]and ser no 10385?. That country has had a CheckeredSlovakian history , Good luck, Don
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Author: Venancio
Date: 1999-03-31 00:02
Dee and Don Berger
Thank you for the interesting information that you have shared with me.
The possibility to assure that the clarinet was made in this period of 20 years among 1918 when being constituted
Czechoslovakia, and the Munich Conference in Sept. of 1938,
is a good beginning.
Yes, in the bell, besides the maker's name engraving,city and country, there are seven "medals" (or circles) prepared
horizontally. In the medal of the center(that is the biggest), surrounded of a bunch of laurel, is read PARIS.
In the other ones is read CHICAGO, LONDON, and four more with a bunch of laurel. Under the circles: Bb
10815
The low pitch(LP)designation, is close to the low E key.
What means the denomination WW 2 vintage?
The wood condition is also very good in my cl., mainly
if is around "70" years old (??).
Best regards
Venancio
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Author: Dee
Date: 1999-03-31 00:53
WW2 is just a short way of writing World War II. So when Don referred to WW2, that is what he was talking about. Basically he meant that he thought it might have been made at about that time. However that fact that it actually is marked LP and is marked Czechoslovakia probably puts it earlier (1918 to 1938).
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 1999-03-31 02:54
Correctly said, Dee, I should have not used such an abbreviation. Perhaps someone [an Early Clarinet -ist?] may know when the practice of labelling the clarinet as L P was ended. I should think it might have been as early as 1910. Luck, Don
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Author: Dee
Date: 1999-03-31 03:27
Don Berger wrote:
-------------------------------
Correctly said, Dee, I should have not used such an abbreviation. Perhaps someone [an Early Clarinet -ist?] may know when the practice of labelling the clarinet as L P was ended. I should think it might have been as early as 1910. Luck, Don
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I suspect that practice may easily have continued into the 1920s. On the ebay auction, I've seen a couple of Buffets in the past where they listed serial numbers so one could check the age and I think I remember seeing ones that were marked LP and serial numbers were from the 1920s. Some other interesting things have shown up there too. I've seen an Albert system that did NOT have the wrap around register key and a Boehm system that DID have it (both Buffets if I remember correctly). There have been several Boehm system instruments that were marked LP so the practice continued during the time period when the Boehm system was rapidly gaining in popularity over the Albert. However, where it was possible to check the age by serial number (such as Buffet instruments), nothing from the 1930s or later appears to have been marked as to pitch standard.
On the other hand, anything earlier than the last decade of the 1800s also appears not to have been marked as to pitch standard. Again it is difficult to trace but there have been a few old horns where the brand and serial number allowed checking of the age. Of course only one or two such specimens come up in a year's time so the amount of data available is pretty sparse so you can't really draw a very definitive conclusion.
It is my estimate (based on the horns I've been able to look up that appear on the auction) that the practice of labeling LP or HP began sometime in the 1890s and was discontinued sometime in the 1920s. This just gives a period of about 30 years when this labeling practice was used.
I get a kick out of reading the descriptions of these older horns and where the serial number information is available at different web sites, looking up their age.
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Author: Rick2
Date: 1999-03-31 04:35
The W. Meinl A clarinet I bought off Ebay has the wrap around register key and it is also an enhanced Boehm system, by which I mean it has five keys on both sides for the pinky fingers.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 1999-03-31 15:55
Yes, I also have seen [and had] clar's with wrap-around register keys [out of the water-run and possibly having a 'cleaner' Bb]and with the straight key in both some Alberts and many Boehms of the 1900-1930 era. Rick, I presume your Meinl is what {I} call a Full-Boehm 20/7 keys/rings? Anyway congrats, I'm trying to bid up an 18/7 now! Don
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Author: George
Date: 1999-04-05 18:50
I have what is supposed to be a Penzle-Mueller (name on bell only) which is stamped HP/A on both joints, but has no serial number on either. It is stamped CZECHO-SLOVIKIA on the lower joint, and has the wrap-around register key on a standard Boehm. But as to how old it is, I also would like to know.
Dee wrote:
-------------------------------
Don Berger wrote:
-------------------------------
Correctly said, Dee, I should have not used such an abbreviation. Perhaps someone [an Early Clarinet -ist?] may know when the practice of labelling the clarinet as L P was ended. I should think it might have been as early as 1910. Luck, Don
-------------------------------
I suspect that practice may easily have continued into the 1920s. On the ebay auction, I've seen a couple of Buffets in the past where they listed serial numbers so one could check the age and I think I remember seeing ones that were marked LP and serial numbers were from the 1920s. Some other interesting things have shown up there too. I've seen an Albert system that did NOT have the wrap around register key and a Boehm system that DID have it (both Buffets if I remember correctly). There have been several Boehm system instruments that were marked LP so the practice continued during the time period when the Boehm system was rapidly gaining in popularity over the Albert. However, where it was possible to check the age by serial number (such as Buffet instruments), nothing from the 1930s or later appears to have been marked as to pitch standard.
On the other hand, anything earlier than the last decade of the 1800s also appears not to have been marked as to pitch standard. Again it is difficult to trace but there have been a few old horns where the brand and serial number allowed checking of the age. Of course only one or two such specimens come up in a year's time so the amount of data available is pretty sparse so you can't really draw a very definitive conclusion.
It is my estimate (based on the horns I've been able to look up that appear on the auction) that the practice of labeling LP or HP began sometime in the 1890s and was discontinued sometime in the 1920s. This just gives a period of about 30 years when this labeling practice was used.
I get a kick out of reading the descriptions of these older horns and where the serial number information is available at different web sites, looking up their age.
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