 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Maria P
Date: 2012-01-05 21:15
I think I've been 'stung' by a seller on ebay. Being naive, I thought I'd got a bargain (foolishly) and bought a B&H Regent for approx £30. However, when it's arrived today, it has two different serial numbers on - 33**** on the upper joint and 38**** on the lower joint.
I'm not sure of its age (after looking around the net came up with early 70's??) and most of the pads have been renewed. At the moment the cork isn't too much of a problem, but it will need renewing soon.
The problem is, and I'm in two minds whether to email the seller because the item isn't as advertised - if I spend money recorking etc, and decide in the future to sell the clarinet (its to be used as a spare or for outside) I'm sure I'll lose out as it isn't so much a clarinet as two clarinets 'shunted' together. And advice greatly appreciated...
Maria
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-01-06 00:04
It may have had the top joint replaced due to a broken middle tenon which is a common thing with Regents (when they get knocked over) which is much easier to do than replacing the tenon.
As the serial numbers are 50000 (or thereabouts) apart and still in the 300000s, it should be a good match. It could've been done back in the '70s or more recently, but that shouldn't be a problem - and you got it for £30 anyway so that's a good price.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
Independent Woodwind Repair Specialist
Oboes, Clarinets and Saxes
NOT A MEMBER OF N.A.M.I.R.
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2012-01-06 10:59
It's quite possible that the EBay seller wasn't aware of the serial number problem. If they weren't a player it might not have been noticed. As Chris P says, it could have happened at any time in the life of the instrument as a cheap and effective way of getting it functional again. If it has ever been a school instrument it could have happened there, schools are notorious for mixing and matching instrument parts. For what you paid for it, I wouldn't be too worried as long as it plays.
Tony F.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2012-01-06 19:30
The 2 parts date from 1970 and 1972.
With professional level clarinets the matching is important since the instruments are built, assembled and tuned with the actual joints numbered.
Student clarinets like the Regent are just put together on an assembley line, certainly never tuned and often never even played before leaving the factory so the serial nos are pretty irrelevant unless there has been a major design or manufacturing change between the times involved.
As Chris suggests I don't think it will have any effect on playing and at £30 I don't think you are in the investment market.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2012-01-08 00:12
From experience on ebay you have a right to get a refund. The serial numbers should match.
The instrument was misleading, therefore subject to returning it. I totally agree with the others and the seller didn't really know. If the horn doesn't play file a complaint on ebay.
Check out the tuning. Make sure there aren't any notes way out of tune, to the point that the instrument can't be tuned.
If you like how it plays hang on to it for a bit and sell it when you are ready to move up in quality, such as the pro models.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-01-08 08:27
In all honesty I think you're worrying far too much over something trivial - you got a clarinet for £30 which works (or can easily be put into full working order), the only concern is the serial numbers don't match up. That is a pretty insignificant thing as long as the joints fit properly as they should do considering these were mass manufactured clarinets, so you shouldn't have any tuning problems as you can mix and match B&H joints of a similar era and still have an instrument that plays as good as one with matching serial numbers.
All clarinets are comprised of separately made joints (whether machined or moulded) and the upper and lower joints only come together when serial numbers get stamped on them. Plastic instruments have more uniformity when compared to wooden clarinets so you can take two instruments of the same make and model and swap the joints around only to find no difference.
I just had a look on eBay to see how much Regents go for, there are several starting at around £50 and some for as much as £250 or more that are fully restored or in full working order (which can be taken with a pinch of salt). That's not to say you've been ripped off or your Regent isn't worth anything - it's still a working clarinet and although you only paid £30 for it, you will still get your money back on it when you decide to sell it on.
Some things can't be explained - in particular why it doesn't have matching serial numbers or why only one of them was disclosed in the listing. The only explanations for the mismatched joints I have already mentioned (there could well be a legitimate explanation), as for the seller not stating both numbers in the listing, that could just be down to human error in they assumed both numbers were the same and just took the number off one joint.
In all fairness I still think you got it for a good price.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
Independent Woodwind Repair Specialist
Oboes, Clarinets and Saxes
NOT A MEMBER OF N.A.M.I.R.
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2012-01-08 12:10
Normally I rant against "marriages," but in this case I have to agree with Chris P. The Regent was a student-quality clarinet to begin with; this price is very low; the same manufacturer made both sections; and the serial numbers are reasonably close together. (That last bit is important because if the serial numbers were many years apart, then there'd be a stronger possibility that the manufacturer had changed something significant in the design that might make the sections incompatible.)
The worst marriages are between two clarinets made by *different* manufacturers. Those mash-ups are usually a disaster unless the added part is either carefully selected by an expert or custom-made to order.
One quibble. Chris P wrote,
>>All clarinets are comprised of separately
>>made joints (whether machined or moulded)
>>and the upper and lower joints only come
>>together when serial numbers get stamped
>>on them.
That's true for plastic and metal clarinets, and it's probably true for most wooden student and intermediate models. However, some manufacturers do try to use one piece of wood for both key sections in their high-end wooden models. Buffet has done that at times, although not always. But that's just my nit-pick about the wording. I do agree with Chris P's assessment.
This is one of those situations where if I were in the buyer's place, I wouldn't raise a stink with the seller. What I would do, though, is *tell* the seller that the serial numbers don't match and that this is something s/he should beware of both when buying clarinets and selling them. The seller was lucky this time, but if s/he ever gets careless about scrutinizing all the sections and serial numbers, and peddles something as a Buffet that turns out to have an Artley section in the middle....
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
Post Edited (2012-01-08 12:11)
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Author: kimber
Date: 2012-01-08 14:36
I'll take the other side for the sake of argument - did the clarinet's description list only one serial number? Did the pictures only show one serial number? What details written in the listing are you disputing? The one you assumed? If it was a generic, no information listing and you bought based on the nice picture, then you should have emailed for details before bidding and just chalk it up to auction buying lession learned.
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Author: Maria P
Date: 2012-01-08 22:38
Thanks for all your advice.
In the end I emailed the seller, because when I tried the clarinet (and just to be sure, with two of my own mouthpieces), the only note that was anywhere near accessible was 'g' and that was because I didn't have to cover any keys lol. Even then, the note didn't sound right. When any of the keys were pressed, no notes could be made.
The buyer gave me a lot of crap - telling me I should have bought a professional clarinet for around £1000 if I wanted something in good condition(?). So in the end I opened a dispute through ebay - and he's now offered to refund me in full, including p&p so the clarinet's on its way back to him.
Maria
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Author: huda
Date: 2012-01-10 00:21
if its covered by buyers protection, or if you decide its not worth keeping, the email wont kill you and youll probably be fine
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Author: donald
Date: 2012-01-10 00:44
good for you, but it sounds as if your problems with this clarinet weren't anything to do with the joints not matching if open G was the only note you could play!
dn
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