 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: rick77
Date: 2012-01-02 01:57
I have located a highly recommended clarinet (specialist) repairman and have spoken with him over the phone about replacing the pads on the upper joint of my R13 with cork pads.
He mentioned Valentino synthetic pads as an option to cork pads. He said something along the lines of the tone holes may have indentions from rough grain in the wood and Valentino synthetic pads may seat better than cork pads. Of course he said he would need to examine the clarinet to see what shape the tone holes are in and whether or not they could be prepped for cork pads.
I posted a thread last week about putting cork pads on the upper joint and had planned to proceed with having this done then the repair tech throws in this option of having Valentino synthetic pads on the horn.
I thought I'd run this by all of you here on the forum so I'd be more informed before making a decision. The repair tech knows Valentino personally so he may be a little partial to his products or maybe the
Valentino synthetic pads are a good option for pad replacement.
Any thoughts? Thanks!
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2012-01-02 05:26
They are right that Valentino pads will seal against chipped/grainy tone hole rims much better than cork i.e. require less force to seal, or might be able to seal when cork might not. That's true for any pad that is softer than another. There are reasons why some players/repairers like or don't like Valentino and/or cork pads.
Cork pads pros:
- Firm feel
- Seal great (when installed properly)
- Can last very long
- Sometimes less sticky
Cork pads cons:
- Overly firm for some players
- Noisier than almost all other pads (some people don't mind)
- Annoying type of noise (as opposed to the volume of the noise)
- require more accuracy (not an issue with a great repairer, but usually find out after)
- Can be more expensive
- Can be sticky in ways that some other pads aren't
Valentino pads pros:
- Usually quiet
- Softer feel
- Easier to seal against less than "perfect" tone hole rims
- Faster and easier so can be less expensive
- Can seal great
Valentino pads cons:
- Usually quiet (many plyers prefer a bit more "noise" as opposed to the Valentino "fluff")
- Softer feel (some don't like this)
- Sometimes don't remain level during installation
- Sometimes seal when pressed, but because of the previous issue cna have more "time" from touching the tone hole to actually sealing, resulting in less imediate transition between notes
All IMO and IME with both types.
I like Omni pads. These are synthetic pads with pretty much all the advantages of syntehtic pads but without any of the disadvantages of Valentino pads. I prefer their feel over cork pads (which I'm not crazy about). I still prefer the feel and "noise" of bladder pads over all other pads, but the Omni pds have enough advantages to counter that (Omnis are a bit quieter).
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-01-02 05:53
"Of course he said he would need to examine the clarinet to see what shape the tone holes are in and whether or not they could be prepped for cork pads."
All toneholes can be prepped for cork (or any other) pads provided they're not seriously damaged. Even if they were, the damaged areas can still be filled in and then profiled and levelled to provide a perfect bedplace for cork pads to seat onto. If the damaged areas can't be filled in successfully (if most of the bedplace has been broken away), then they can always be bushed. When repadding any clarinet, it's only a matter of course to tidy up imperfect toneholes regardless if it left the factory in that condition as most do - it's another case of putting things right that otherwise get overlooked during production (due to time and money etc.).
I've just rebuilt an old French-built Selmer Sterling A clarinet (equivalent of an E11) and had to prep all the toneholes on that as they all had bits missing, pores running across them and uneven to some degree or other, even though I ended up repadding it with leather pads which do tend to conform to damaged toneholes better than most pads made of natural materials. But I could've used cork pads on it once all the bedplaces were tidied up, but decided not to as this clarinet is destined as a rental instrument.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2012-01-02 12:12
I think that Valentinos work very well. I know a number of top techs who use them. They seal great and last a long time. I have had them on various instruments and really like the results. I think they are worth a try. There are always plusses and minuses to each of the options out there.
Post Edited (2012-01-02 15:12)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-01-02 14:46
I want to emphasize the last 'Clarnibass' criticism. They ALWAYS make the trills on the side keys less distinct. Personally I would stick with cork. 'Clarnibass' also mentions the Kraus Omni pads which are very good, though they may allow a faster rate of condensation in weather conditions right for condensation.
Hey, you may be close to Phil Muncy who does wonderful work. I don't think he has a problem with cork.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2012-01-02 15:38
Has anyone tried the Valentino Master Series? I think I got something like these on my Marigaux, and they're excellent.
--
Ben
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2012-01-02 16:30
I prefer cork ( done by me) in upper section and one more just below it; for the rest, white kid leather. But, as mentioned, the valve seat must be free of imperfections.
richard smith
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-01-02 19:31
It seems to me that the Master's Series by Valentino could be an answer to the market pressure from the Kraus Omni Pads. I have not seen them in person but it sounds like these could be perfectly fine pads. When referring to Valentinos I assume their standard model though.
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2012-01-02 22:19
Any good repairman will seal the tone holes before putting on any type of pad. Filling any tiny holes or what ever, that should go without saying. That's one of many reasons a really good tech charges more for an overhaul than another, they put in the time to do the job perfectly instead of just good enough. He should do this not matter what pads he puts in. If there's even tiny holes or rough grain that should be taken care of first in any case. ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: bethmhil
Date: 2012-01-02 22:23
I switched from factory Buffet pads (hopelessly awful!) to Valentino synthetics last summer... best decision I've made. I wanted cork pads at first, but my repairman steered me away from them... in addition to all the great info Clarnibass provided about cork pads (labor/cost, noise, 'hardness'), cork pads are susceptible to expanding and contracting from humidity and temperature, which can cause some serious problems. I personally don't think I could deal with cork pads, because I can't stand any extraneous noise coming from my keys...
BMH
Illinois State University, BME and BM Performance
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-01-02 22:24
Indeed Ed - if that sort of work isn't carried out during a full overhaul, then you might as well not bother repadding it at all as it'll be just as leaky with old and damaged pads as it will be with rough toneholes and a brand new set of pads.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2012-01-03 04:56
>> I want to emphasize the last 'Clarnibass' criticism. They ALWAYS make the trills on the side keys less distinct. <<
It only takes one clarinet with Valentino pads without this problem to show it's no always... and I've seen several. So not always.
>> ...also mentions the Kraus Omni pads which are very good, though they may allow a faster rate of condensation in weather conditions right for condensation. <<
Why would they do that...? IME they don't.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-01-03 08:03
I've heard people complain that cork or synthetic pads cause more water to collect in toneholes more than if skin or leather pads are used, but that's hardly the case.
What's most likely happening is if porous leather pads or damaged skin pads are in those locations prone to water collecting, the water will soak into them more than it will with cork or synthetic pads.
The same degree of condensation will occur in the bore if the clarinet, but cork or synthetic pads won't absorb it which may give the impression they increase the amount of condensation which isn't true.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-01-03 09:03
OK, the condensation issue is OBVIOUSLY not that the synthetic pads create MORE moisture, the problem (as I think I was experiencing it on a fully Kraus padded horn DURING THE WINTER) is that of water ADHESION. The same problem one sees with water in a test tube. Water adheres to a smooth, non porous surface (in a test tube you don't get a straight line across to measure quantity, you are actually looking at a U-shape with the water crawling up the sides of the tube). This is what I think happens with the synthetic materials which really only ADDS to the annoyance of water in the tone holes.
Also, above it was said that cork expands and contracts.............. not to ANY degree that you'll notice either within one session or over time !!!! They are incredibly stable. Perhaps Valentino may last longer (10, 15 years) BUT they ALWAYS ALWAYS sound mushy on side key trills ........... sorry Clarnibass.
...................Paul Aviles
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2012-01-03 09:33
Valentinos are easy to clean. A little bit of water on the pad and gently rub with cloth. The seats of closed pads tend to get deeper and deeper. I've had great luck with the valentinos on my clarinet.
Freelance woodwind performer
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