 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2012-01-01 21:10
Computer-sampled versions of clarinet tone seem to have improved recently (and orchestral tuttis even more so). Listen to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km1GZifGdYM, not for the music (which is best left without comment), but for how close to an orchestral tutti and a solo clarinet it sounds.
It's not there yet, but we're only a few steps ahead of being eaten alive.
Ken Shaw
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2012-01-01 21:37
Still sounds hopelessly synthetic to me. You are right about the quality of synthesizers improving however. I doubt we will ever see orchestras replaced by machines for playing classical music but the takeover of pop music by synthesizers is already well underway.
It's sad really. Synthesizers may progress to the point where they can sound very realistic but they will always sound exactly the same every time. For me it is the subtle differences in each performance that keep me going to see concerts in person rather than just listening to records/CD's/etc. If the concert iss going to be played on synths then what is the point of going?
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2012-01-01 23:11
I've heard much better synthed orchestras than this one. In 2003, this may have been impressive, but it's rather dated. A pro at a synth can top this blindfolded.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2012-01-01 23:22
EEBaum wrote:
> A pro at a synth can top this blindfolded.
Exactly - for an artistically meaningful rendition of a piece you still need a musician - either behind a mouthpiece, or at the keys. A mere midi track can't compete.
--
Ben
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Author: ned
Date: 2012-01-01 23:22
I agree with Steve regarding the obviously synthetic tone of the ''clarinet'', however, I also agree with Ken comment ''we're only a few steps ahead of being eaten alive''
The younger generation is becoming somewhat anaesthetised where the issue of electronic instruments vs real ones is concerned. In fact, to most listening audiences it's not really an issue at all with them - it's just musicians with the issue.
Ever since the invention of the vacuum valve and the amplifier, audiences have become more accepting of ''artificial'' sounds. The era of the jazz big band died at about the time subsequent to WW2 after which popular crooning, aided and abetted by the emergence of bigger and better PA systems and band amplification became fairly ubiquitous. The big band was clearly made redundant as a result. And so on into the rock and roll eras 60's 70's 80's etc......where the electric guitar (at least in pop music) now predominates.
It's not merely a matter of changing tastes either, the economics of presenting (say) a fifteen piece orchestra/band/group compared to a hugely amplified quartet, does not need much skill in mathematics to work out.
So apart from the really serious audiences (for classical music in this instance) I can well see the day when a promoter will opt for a synthesised orchestra rather than for the genuine deal. Most audiences really, could not give a toss, as long as they can hear their favourite pieces they will not care particularly if it comes from forty, fifty or whatever human players, or from one or two blokes on keyboards and banks of speakers.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2012-01-02 10:51
"So, what do we do when the wood runs out?" .....could be clarinetists' mantra.
Ans: Back to the metal clarinet? Or will it be the synthesized clarinet, examples of which already exist. In the realm of tv cartoons are taking the place of real people. Ok, real people are still supplying the voices. But as the tv pitch man says, "But wait, order now and I'll send you a free one too". For the most part, clarinetists are the only ones who are picky about the exact sound of a clarinet. Most listeners aren't that astute. Time marches on.
Bob Draznik
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2012-01-02 22:03
Our Allen organ has several clarinet stops. They are excellent.
richard smith
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2012-01-03 00:43
To me it sounds like a "clarinet" stop on a pipe organ, not even close to a real clarinet sound.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2012-01-03 14:42
and I think Woody Allen sounds like he's really playing a clarinet......
Bob Draznik
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Author: ned
Date: 2012-01-04 02:08
''......and I think Woody Allen sounds like he's really playing a clarinet......''
Err........wot?
I'm not sure where you're going here Bob.
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Author: Tony M
Date: 2012-01-04 11:18
I'm assuming that Bob's Woody Allen comment is calling back to Richard Smith's comment about the Allen organ in some kind of bebop style of posting, Ned.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2012-01-04 12:14
If you Aussie friends would post your email adresses we could get to it. No, it wasn't a bebop comment and I hadn't even thought about the Allen duo. Friend Dave favors "real" clarinet sound....and so do I, but keyboards have pretty much replaced pianos and I'm inclined to believe that synthesized clarinet sounds will replace real clarinets.....in time. I'm from the camp who maintain that there are many "good" clarinet sounds....including Woody Allen's.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Tony M
Date: 2012-01-04 12:59
I can take my tongue from my cheek, Bob, and agree that I prefer acoustic sounds and I like a bit of air between the instrument and the microphone as well and I like a lot of different clarinet sounds. However, electronic sounds are the thing that happens to be exciting a lot of people these days and I anticipate, and not really regretfully, that we will see a new generation of midi instruments and midi drivers in the near future. I don't use an EWI but I do find, for making backing tracks, a set of electronic drum pads works a lot better than a keyboard for wind and brass instrument sounds. It's a matter of attack.
Sorry, I didn't realise that my email address was hidden. I've rectified that.
Post Edited (2012-01-04 13:02)
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Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2012-01-04 13:54
So long as clarinetists continue the path towards sounding like computers, they will contribute to the problem.
But so long as there are players dedicated to a truly vocal, personal style and sound, singing inimitably from the soul, regardless of the commercial opportunities (which may indeed disappear), our art will never loose relevance.
Eric
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
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Author: Tony M
Date: 2012-01-04 14:28
"So long as clarinetists continue the path towards sounding like computers, they will contribute to the problem."
I'm not sure what the problem is. There are more types of instruments today than there were when I grew up. I see that as a good thing. They have a different timbre. That is both logical (they are different instruments) and it is a good thing too (what is the point of a new instrument that sounds like an old one?).
Is the problem that the new technology will put the old technology out of business? Welcome to the industrial revolution.
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Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2012-01-04 15:24
I've got no problem with new instruments, technology, or the Industrial Revolution. But when people play the horn like robots, count me out--real robots playing clarinet will always be cooler than fake robots. Unless of course the effect of fake robots is called for by the the piece. Then it might count as expressive.
I'm a big fan of using all the technology we've got for expressive ends. Pat Metheny's The Way Up is a masterpiece as are countless other recordings (including some very interesting hip-hop over the past two decades or so).
I'm not gonna get into a debating contest on this one. I think my opinion is pretty clear to those who get what I'm talking about. To those who don't get it--don't worry about it. I'm not interested in arguing it.
Eric
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
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Author: Tony M
Date: 2012-01-04 20:59
"I think my opinion is pretty clear to those who get what I'm talking about. To those who don't get it--don't worry about it. I'm not interested in arguing it."
I think I get it now. I misunderstood earlier.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2012-01-05 13:13
Debates aside....I chanced to open "Marlboroughman"'s website and was pleasantly surprised by the duo performance of our National Anthem at the Sugar Bowl. I encourage you'all to do the same.........
Bob Draznik
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Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2012-01-05 13:22
Thanks, Bob. Today's article is a discussion of Mozart K622 again, so readers will have to scroll down a bit to hear Michael White and Bryan Batt.
I've been listening to Michael since I was a kid in the '80s. It was a thrill to hear him live on ESPN--combining clarinet and sports coverage saves me time. I wish they would put Karl Leister on 'Around the Horn.'
So long as guys like Michael are out there laying it down, the clarinet will never be obsolete.
Eric
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
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Author: rgames
Date: 2012-01-06 02:10
I'm not sure if this thread is meant as a joke - if so, you got me!
That example is nowhere near the quality that current technology can produce. In fact, it's not even good for 10 years ago...
Take a look here: http://www.vsl.co.at/en/211/442/412/355/601/377.htm
And here's a track I did recently using all "virtual" instruments: http://soundcloud.com/richard-ames/flight-of-the-mighty
In the media world, unless it has a name like Spielberg on it, odds are it's using sampled instruments. And, within the last 5 - 7 years, those instruments have gotten pretty good. Again, the example given there is really bad - it sounds like the Garritan library in Finale (which is not used for production).
Also, those instruments are not synthesized, they're sampled.
rgames
____________________________
Richard G. Ames
Composer - Arranger - Producer
www.rgamesmusic.com
Post Edited (2012-01-06 02:12)
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Author: ned
Date: 2012-01-06 03:52
Bob wrote ''I'm from the camp who maintain that there are many "good" clarinet sounds....including Woody Allen's.''
Richard Ames seems to have done a good clarinet synth Bob. http://soundcloud.com/richard-ames/flight-of-the-mighty
Do you think a good Woody Allen synth could be achieved though?
The vibrato would be something of a challenge, I suspect.
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