 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Rapidcif
Date: 2011-12-31 17:01
Hey one the biggest problems with my playing is actually not physical, but a mental flaw. I often times have trouble relaxing on the clarinet, and this is multiplied when i'm playing for someone or for a recording, which would prove deadly for a big audition i have next week.
What usually happens is that when i'm playing for someone, i feel myself getting tense and tightening my throat and embochure, so i try to correct it, and when i can't correct it, i get even more tense and frustrated. So it's almost like a paranoia. I was just wondering...does anyone have any ideas and insight on correcting this problem?
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2011-12-31 18:20
Rapiccif -
It's a physical problem, not a mental one, let alone a "flaw." There's nothing wrong with you. It's called performance anxiety, and even great musicians (e.g., Vladimir Horowitz) suffer from it. It has come up many times here.
The usual advice is about diet, relaxation, massage, yoga, herbs, etc.
These remedies work for some, and you should certainly try them first, but for most people, the solution is beta blockers. One classical musician in four uses them. http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=20&i=107&t=68
In candor, I tell you that this subject has raised controversy in past discussions. http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=363483&t=363483 I suggest that you read both strings.
You of course get beta blockers only by prescription and use them under a doctor's care. I use them by prescription for other problems, and they completely eliminate the tension. The modern beta blockers don't have the side effects of older ones, and there's nothing shameful about using them.
Ken Shaw
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Author: DrewSorensenMusic
Date: 2011-12-31 18:20
For my two cents, I think the only way to overcome any barrier is to face it head on. If you are having trouble performing for others or on a recording, I'd suggest to perform and record yourself every day. I myself frequently record all my work, which is a fantastic self-evaluating tool, as well as prepares me for public performance. So I'd start there, go through your normal routine, and leave some additional time to record yourself. It does not need to be professional. I record myself with a canon digital camera, so I can see as well as hear my performance. Record yourself at different times through your practice schedule. Record yourself after long tones, or in the middle of your routine, or at the very end of your practice day. These different times will produce different results, and you will learn more about your playing. When you can successfully record yourself, ask some friends, family, and teachers in school to take 5 minutes to listen to you play. I'm sure these people will enjoy hearing your music, and it will be a good exercise for your playing as well. Hope this helps, enjoy.
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Author: Buster
Date: 2011-12-31 19:13
Sometimes facing a barrier head on can only serve to strengthen that barrier.
The manifestations that the "fight/flight" response can take often vary greatly from person to person; ones' "solution" is not always applicable across the board. Though well fleshed-out suggestions can cause no harm in an abstract reading.
As for a physical/mental "problem", the two are often so intertwined, both on the conscious and sub-conscious level, that they become indistinguishable.
Some educated reading can give much greater insight than simple guessing does. the Relaxation Response, Benson M.D. is a good place to begin. This has become an "industry standard" of sorts for entering into discussions/studies in this arena, though it is not the end-point.
-Jason
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Author: DrewSorensenMusic
Date: 2011-12-31 19:32
If you're looking for further reading that may help the subject, there's a phenomenal book titled "The Inner Game of Tennis." This is highly recommended reading for anyone that is going through feelings of anxiety, self-consciousness, and stress.
http://www.theinnergame.com/products/books/
You can note that there is also an "Inner Game of Music", and either one of these books are based on the same principles that are interchangeable to control pressured situations.
That being said, maybe best not to overthink the solution. There are many solutions to every problem, it is up to you to find what works best for you.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2012-01-01 02:09
One thing that may help, which I picked up from a buddy teaching me Parkour, is to stop, look at the problem, and try to see what it is you're afraid of (what you're apprehensive about, what's causing a catch or mental block, etc.). Then look at the consequences of what you're afraid of. What's the WORST that could happen?
Now, have you ever actually DONE the thing that's the worst that could happen? Do you know what it feels like? If you do, you'll probably know that it's not all that bad. If you don't, try it. Play something wrong to see what it feels like. Better yet, find someone and play it wrong for them, not with the intention of playing it right, but with the intention of experiencing what playing it wrong feels like. See that the consequences aren't all that bad.
From then on, you've experienced the worst that can happen, and you can refer back to it, and see that, even if all goes wrong, it's not all that bad. And if all goes well, all the better.
I've only recently stumbled into this philosophy, which has been great for me. I'm curious to see how/whether this works for other people...
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-01-01 02:51
For me, I found that being IN THE MOMENT is key. Really listen (that is, ENJOY) to what is coming out of the clarinet. The Vandoren TV link (from another thread) has a great interview with Cuper who speaks of nerves and his refocusing on the playing that distracts him from his nerves.
I second the "Inner Game of Tennis;" also "A Soprano On Her Head." It seems to me that when you apply the ideas in these books your detail on which to focus becomes the some aspect of the sound itself (or the vibrations under your fingers). Find the detail that brings you JOY - which is kinda sorta why we all got into this in the first place !!!
....................Paul Aviles
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Author: Trevor M
Date: 2012-01-01 09:12
I second what Ken suggested... you can read a lot of self-help books and eat bananas and 'find details that give you joy', but if your body absorbs adrenaline at a different rate and it makes you shake, you're going to have trouble performing. Beta blockers were a magic bullet for my shakiness.
Having said that, you should try to play in front of strangers a lot to get used to the sensation. Ask strangers if they'll do you a favor and listen to you play for a minute and half or whatever (obviously, this works better in a music department that at the grocery store). It helped me when I was getting ready for recitals.
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Author: srattle
Date: 2012-01-01 13:09
I'm shocked and disgusted that anyone's first advice would be beta blockers!!!!! Especially to someone that you do not know face to face. No one who isn't a doctor should be suggesting this! If used, they should be a last resort, not a first attempt!!!! Jeez
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2012-01-01 14:43
A wise counsellor used to always tell us, "What you RESIST will PERSIST."
The sensations that most of us feel as we undertake public performance are real, physical, human responses to the looming challenge of performance. They are not a "flaw" in our psyche. They are a function of our existence as physical creatures.
That said, keeping in mind what the counsellor said, instead of responding as if these "fight or flight" sensations are shameful or abnormal, we would do better to just NOTICE and ACCEPT them. Go with them. Expect them. Maybe even welcome them. And then just go ahead and play. If your preparation has been adequate, you'll do fine. "Feel the fear, and do it anyway."
On the other hand, this all-too-familiar sinking sensation that we know so well may actually be nature's way of telling us that we are NOT adequately prepared. That's a totally different kettle of fish. If you find yourself saying things like, "But I played it perfectly at home," (or when the recording device wasn't turned on, or when no one was listening, etc., etc. ) , then your problem may actually be that you aren't being honest with yourself about the quality of your preparation.
Susan
Post Edited (2012-01-01 14:48)
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Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2012-01-01 19:19
Re: beta blockers (which I have used for several years for a severe heart condition).
I agree that great caution should be taken with these. There is no such thing as a drug without side effects--even if they seem minimal. I have known players to use them seemingly without problems, but I have known others who ended up in the emergency room, with these perhaps exacerbating an unknown condition--I don't know, and I'm not a doctor. I would suggest trying everything else first, and if those are exhausted, I'd recommend some soul searching and doctor's visits before stepping in that direction. I say this for safety, not because of stigma.
For jitters, I could recommend many things, but one thing I always did was pray--with an emphasis on "THY will be done", rather than mine, and putting every audition in perspective. There are other things I did too, but everyone has their routine and finds what works for them.
All the best,
Eric
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2012-01-01 20:01
"On the other hand, this all-too-familiar sinking sensation that we know so well may actually be nature's way of telling us that we are NOT adequately prepared. That's a totally different kettle of fish. If you find yourself saying things like, "But I played it perfectly at home," (or when the recording device wasn't turned on, or when no one was listening, etc., etc. ) , then your problem may actually be that you aren't being honest with yourself about the quality of your preparation."
This brings up an interesting point. Given the incredible complexity of music and the uncertainty of the moment, is anyone EVER adequately prepared? I'd suggest that there are more facets to being adequately prepared than are typically addressed.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Buster
Date: 2012-01-01 20:51
With respect to all,
---Given that a panicked mind is not a rational mind, some of the protocols suggested above may, or may, not work for all. The state of mind invoked in performance can be totally non-reliant on any previous physical preparation; playing for friends not withstanding.
Once that panicked state is elicited, no simple rationale will easily break the barrier as well-intentioned as they may be: telling one to embrace their panic can be a death sentence. A panicked mind is not a rational mind.
The "panicked" state can even be present for a great period of time before any given performance (even unbeknownst to the sufferer); the physical manifestations are simply activated at the time of performance.
---Perhaps instead of suggesting well-intentioned "witch-doctor" remedies, or jumping completely to a drug-reliant solution, we should simply guide any reader to actual literature that can aid them.
The Inner Game.... books are interesting, as is A Soprano on Her Head, but they are woefully lacking in many ways: they do little to aid one actually suffering from true performance anxiety.
Anything offering a "Zen" approach should be viewed with a questioning mind. "Zen" is not a mind-set, it is a sect of Buddhism that is a quite well-defined, codified, way of life. Works invoking a "Zen mind-set" may aid those whom are unable to call up what they have practiced, reliably, in performance. But make no mistake, they do little to help one suffering from actual anxiety; or anti-"Relaxation" per the title of the thread.
---the Relaxation Response, Benson M.D. is an apt introduction to a medically supported approach; and though now a bit dated (some 25 years old), has been supported and accepted by the medical community. The book deals primarily with blood-pressure control, but the results affected are further reaching than simply that realm.
Again, the work is merely an introduction to a path that each may discover, but can serve as an open door to truly supported approaches.
I am not a medical professional, nor do I suffer from any performance anxiety symptoms. I have seen friends that did suffer, both anxiety and well-intentioned "suggestions" by outsiders.
I would respectfully ask that we proffer more supported suggestions, or simply refrain. This is a sensitive subject for many that is flippantly viewed by others.
Given all of that, I am not comfortable offering any more from my limited view-point of any readers actual state.
-Jason
Post Edited (2012-01-01 20:56)
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Author: DrewSorensenMusic
Date: 2012-01-01 22:51
http://www.nafme.org/v/future_teachers/menc-collegiate-august-2008-newslink
I don't know why this point is being harped on, but I feel that this is important.
The Inner Game of Music is found in nearly every major, acclaimed, accredited music university curriculum for performance and education. Relaxation Response is not. End of.
An exercise: Google "Inner Game of Music Syllabus" and see the number of collegiate courses that contain the Inner Game of Music as required or recommended reading. Then Google "Relaxation Response Syllabus" or "Relaxation Response Benson Syllabus". You will see there are not many.
So if you want to get a head start on your music college coursework, or if you would just like to get the same training as those that pay thousands of dollars to learn, I'd go with The Inner Game of Music. While Relaxation Response may be a good book, it may not be the best first choice on the matter.
Furthermore, in these boards it might be best to stick with widely accepted solutions to common problems. If you do suggest an out-of-the-box solution, maybe it's best not to discredit proven methods. While new techniques do have their merits, they also have a high probability of confouding an otherwise harmless stubling block.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2012-01-01 23:07
Drew:
I've never read either Relaxation Response nor Inner Game of Music. However, the mere prevalence of a piece of literature does not ensure its effectiveness nor quality, ESPECIALLY in regards to its use as a college text, which are often mandated, used because "it's the standard," or chosen as a result of politicking. I've used some **** textbooks, often with professors that are either upset about having to use them, or who are not experts on the material themselves and assign the book because they saw it show up on a lot of other syllabi.
I'm not saying Inner Game is lousy -- it may in fact be quite a good book -- just that a book's presence in college curricula should be taken with a grain of salt.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: DrewSorensenMusic
Date: 2012-01-01 23:17
And I wholly agree. I would never recommend something solely on the basis that someone else has, but here's the situation.
Someone has a problem, and they are looking for the best (and probably only one) solution. That person has never studied on the subject (the subject being relieving stress barriers, not music in general).
In this case scenario, I know this as truth:
1. I have read the book, and it has furthered my growth.
2. It is recommended by music professionals, both through university and private study
3. It has helped collegues of mine with similar problems
I am not saying that this book is the only book you'll ever need, or even the best book (although I do think it is the best book) for the problem. But the "Zen" way of thinking (and by the way this book goes far beyond a religious text) was somewhat discreditted above, and considering the effect this book has had on countless performers, I felt it necessary to reaffirm that this book is one of the best first choices when it comes to facing problems created by emotion and stress.
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Author: Buster
Date: 2012-01-02 00:12
Drew,
Though Wikipedia is not the end-all be all of research:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Relaxation_Response
The book is merely a beginning point; and if you were to actually read the work without dismissing it out-of-hand perhaps comments would be tempered.
As someone whom has dealt with G.A.D., O.C.D. and P.T.S.D. (and am not ashamed to speak of it), perhaps I CAN speak with a bit more weight on the matter than you- I dare say. This is Not a statement of Ego, but one of truth.
They no longer control my life as they did for many years, but I am fully aware of the physiological, psychological, and physical interactions/manifestations. Perhaps on a much deeper, more educated level than most- though I am not a medical professional as I stated previously.
Taking that into account I CAN say as a matter of truth:
1.) Problems of emotion and stress as a "mental block" and as a truly, medically based, tactile effect are 2 wholly differing entities.
2.) Dismissing the term "Zen" out-right does not completely degrade a work; but having a context from where the true definition of where a term comes from can perhaps enlighten a reader of material that invokes the term. Maybe that enlightenment may spur further reading that can educate beyond where the original Inner Game of........ reaches.
3.) The fact that dogmatic courses of "musical study", and the syllabi that they generate, are oft never subject to true peer review should be taken into account. Recommended works are quite often passed on as "The Solution" without ever having been truly dissected.
No offense intended, but your knee-jerk reaction to me questioning a book you hold so dear may speak of this.
4.) A work that was subjected to medical peer-review, and agreed to be published regardless of the measurable outcome, perhaps holds a bit more stature than a work which includes some unquantifiable ends.
I wished to attempt to keep this on as an "anonymous" tract as possible; however, the fact that you resort to citing precedent to support your stance, and addressing the matter in an egotistical way as if you have been "called out", does anger me. Thus, I would ask that you abide the irony of me making personal statements directed towards you.
However, short-sighted "supported" statements as you are making may be very incomplete, or even a bit skewed.
http://calteches.library.caltech.edu/51/2/CargoCult.pdf
-Jason
[Edited for clarity]
Post Edited (2012-01-02 00:14)
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Author: DrewSorensenMusic
Date: 2012-01-02 00:33
While I do appreciate your conviction on the matter, let me repeat a few key points.
A musician is looking help to curb mistakes caused by stress. This particular musician may have a future in music to some degree, on which the subject will be studied or discussed. This musician would probably spend much of his/her time practicing than studying on a subject that is related to but not completely his subject of study.
In the future, this person will more than likely be required to read this book. Better to do it now, let it help or potentally solve their problem, and get a head start on their workload. Then they can spend more time enjoying what the love to do.
Medical texts are good, but this particular text is not wholly accepted by the music community. If it is being considered on a greater scale, it is still quite a new book to the music community, whose teaching must be tested. Untested, this book can potentially cause much confusion on the matter. And on a large scale, this book has not been proven as to how a developing mind may react to its words or focus. So I repeat, it is better to stay focused on the tried and true methods our educators have passed down to us.
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Author: ClarionRegister
Date: 2012-01-02 00:55
Well, I don't know if this has been mentioned here or not, but consumption of caffeine can make you tense. So, on the day of a performance or audition DON'T have any caffeine before that. You should also enjoy your audition and be confident and aware of what you're performing. I find these things to work very well for me and I hope they will do the same for you.
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Author: Buster
Date: 2012-01-02 01:07
Quote:
Medical texts are good, but this particular text is not wholly accepted by the music community. If it is being considered on a greater scale, it is still quite a new book to the music community, whose teaching must be tested. Untested, this book can potentially cause much confusion on the matter. And on a large scale, this book has not been proven as to how a developing mind may react to its words or focus. So I repeat, it is better to stay focused on the tried and true methods our educators have passed down to us.
Why must we continually listen to our educators? Who says they are right?
Medical texts are "good" because they can offer quantifiable proof as to a path; whether accepted by the musical community at large matters not. To borrow an-others words "Who Dey?"
Untested? I suggest you perhaps do some research before making spurious statements.
Tried and true methods? I know many that have been harmed by the Inner Game of Music not working for them, and thus become more discouraged- even to the point of quitting.
As the genesis of this thread dealt with "anti-Relaxation" on a physical level, I would dare say a very simple approach with verifiable medical benefits holds a bit more water.
Quote:
Furthermore, in these boards it might be best to stick with widely accepted solutions to common problems. If you do suggest an out-of-the-box solution, maybe it's best not to discredit proven methods. While new techniques do have their merits, they also have a high probability of confouding [sic] an otherwise harmless stubling[sic] block.
Widely accepted solutions? Says who? Perhaps in some circles.... but most certainly not in others.
As for an "out-of-the-box" offering, I would talk to some clinical psychologists to see which work they would recommend one suffering physical anxiety first. And for the record, Benson's work predates the Inner Game.... franchise.
http://calteches.library.caltech.edu/51/2/CargoCult.pdf
-Jason
[Edited for errors]
Post Edited (2012-01-02 01:09)
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Author: C.Elizabeth07
Date: 2012-01-02 01:53
I loved Soprano on Her Head, that book really helped me out. I enjoy her approach and I found it much more useful then other books. I also would recommend Effortless Mastery.
What i have found to be the most helpful under high stress situations is to memorize. I memorize everything I plan on performing (not usually intentionally, I just have a real knack for it), then come the performance/audition I keep the music on the stand in front of me but I play with my eyes shut so I can block out anything else going on and not just be in the moment but be in the music.
Having my eyes shut allows me to block out distractions and use my nervous energy to become hyper aware of the lines, shapes, phrases and connections. Plus if you know something well enough to jam it out from memory, then that just adds to your confidence, because then YOU know that you know it pretty damn well...
And like others suggested banana's, avoid caffeine. I also take a very very low dose of beta blockers, HOWEVER, for me I am generally an anxious/nervous person. Even when I feel at ease my hands still tremble, hell they are doing it now and I'm relaxing in my sweat pants with a cup of tea. For me the beta blockers eliminate the shaking and tension that I carry in my body leaving me with a steady foundation to work with. However, again, its a very low dose, with a prescription I got from a doctor, and I use them very very sparingly, only on major auditions/performances.
What is your audition for?
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Author: DrewSorensenMusic
Date: 2012-01-02 02:24
I already know this is a mistake to ask, but you do believe the Mozart effect to be correct I hope. Especially considering you are a musician yourself.
Please tell me you believe wholly that a child's development is greatly strengthened by being exposed to the higher forms of culture as early as possible.
Even as a metal musician, you have to believe this. If you ask the greatest metal guitar virtuosos, many have studied classical music to more than some degree.
I know I'm going to wholly regret this post.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2012-01-02 02:35
I do not believe the Mozart Effect to be correct, because I attended a presentation by the author of the study (looking it up now, I don't recall which person it was... probably the one trying to sell books) and concluded it to be poorly researched and full of conjecture and anecdote. He actually tried to suggest that some patterns in a quantized visualization of a brain scan mimicked the patterns of notes on the page. "See how they go up and down, just like in the music!"
I believe that music can do wonders for people. However, I don't support prescribing a listening regimen on the basis of conjecture, anecdote, and an extremely limited research study.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Buster
Date: 2012-01-02 02:44
Drew,
Please do some research before asking rhetorical questions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozart_effect
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=the+mozart+effect&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart
I hope you do not wholly regret the asking if you end up learning something yourself in the process.
-Jason
"So we really ought to look into theories that don't work.... I tried to find a principle for these kinds of things, and came up with the following system. Any time you find yourself in a conversation at a cocktail party in which you do not feel uncomfortable that the hostess might come around and say, 'Why are you fellows talking shop?' or that your wife will come around and say, 'Why are you flirting again?'--- then you can be sure you are talking about something about which nobody knows anything" - Richard P. Feynman
[edited for clarity]
Post Edited (2012-01-02 02:56)
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Author: DrewSorensenMusic
Date: 2012-01-02 02:57
OK, I'm a bit confused, I'm pretty sure medical science has given us the term "Mozart Effect", not music educators. I could be greatly wrong.
But I really am learning a lot about how people feel when they are being condescended, and this thread is really making me feel sorry on how I may have treated people in the past.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2012-01-02 03:00
Yeah, trying to remember if it was him or not. I want to say that whoever it was was part of the original research team that did the brain scans and such, though I can't be sure.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Buster
Date: 2012-01-02 03:09
Medical science did use the term 'Mozart Effect' as they debunked 95% of it.
Do a bit of digging and you'll find that beyond some short-term effects on spatial reasoning it is pseudo-science at its finest.
Thus, "The Mozart Effect" now has a copyright symbol attached to it.
To answer the question you could have asked, yes. The arts in general do enrich our lives; though we are straying from the topic of the thread.
-Jason
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2012-01-02 03:21
DrewSorensenMusic wrote:
> But I really am learning a lot about how people feel when they
> are being condescended, and this thread is really making me
> feel sorry on how I may have treated people in the past.
Drew, people are trying to educate without being condescending, but you seem to be not taking it that way. There is a lot of "information" bandied about that is of the same dubious quality as the information contained in an "infomercial."
For instance, just because we're musicians should not make us less skeptical of claims that music makes us "smarter." Indeed, if music DID make us smarter, we'd be a lot more skeptical of everything that gets said here - by the non-musicians, anyway. But wait, the non-musicians don't post, so that means ...
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Author: DrewSorensenMusic
Date: 2012-01-02 03:38
It appears that there are varying degrees to which people translate the term "Mozart Effect". Some appear to use it on adults, to cure mental disorder. Some use the term to describe using music to further child development. And lastly we come to Don Campbell, who has created a brand that probably sullys any good to come from this research.
Let it be noted that the "Mozart Effect" was first coined in 1991 by Alfred A Tomatis, an otolaryngologist, which is a sect of Medicine specializing in Ear, Nose, and Throat disorder. In 1993 Raucher, Shaw, and Ky later researched this same subject, and posted their finding ins Nature magazine. I'm not ceratain, but I'm going to assume that this trio was a trio of doctors, or else they may have chosen a different location for their articles.
So to conclude, Medical Science has given us the term and study regarding the "Mozart Effect". The brand by Don Campbell (estabilshed in 1997) may have the same name, but it is not related to science, but is a sales gimmick. Music is important to child and adult development. And we are straying from the subject of this thread.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2012-01-02 04:01
Medical science gave us the very narrow, poorly-researched study that others apparently have failed to replicate, or at best show questionable benefit. By and large, this is the study I hear quoted. Various parties, especially educators, have bandied its findings about in order to encourage more support for classical music and music education. This is the point I was trying to make before about the fallibility and, dare I say, at times gullibility of the music education community.
Edit: I'm referring to the Rauscher study
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
Post Edited (2012-01-02 04:03)
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