 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2011-12-29 18:18
Hi all,
Although this posting relates to a response on another thread, I deemed it worthwhile to create a separate posting.
When I read about the -4 Signature mouthpiece by Brad Behn and how a person could hold the clarinet closer to one's body, I was curious and began searching through his websites to find out more information. Being unable to find it, I emailed Brad and received permission to post the webpage that has not been fully integrated into his websites yet.
http://www.behnmouthpieces.info/signature.html
Just keep hitting the "Next" button and see how the clarinet posture changes with each different angle design.
I also received permission to inform everyone that this webpage is not finalized and may have some typos.
I just thought some of you might find this new patented design interesting.
Disclaimer: I have no affiliation whatsoever with Brad Behn's company.
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2011-12-29 18:47
I've seen the ads in the Clarinet magazine and have been intrigued but I don't think I personally need one!
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Author: NBeaty
Date: 2011-12-29 19:55
Brad Behn currently has three mouthpiece websites. You can quickly learn about his products as well as most anything you need to know about trying mouthpieces and their overall design. www.clarinetmouthpiece.com is a website everyone should familiarize themselves with, including an extensive FAQ section that answers many of the common mouthpiece questions.
I have been playing the signature series mouthpiece for just short of a year and have found it to be the best mouthpiece I've ever played. There are some things to keep in mind when trying to understand the signature collection.
First: They are made from the Brad Behn Propietary Rod Rubber, which is unrivaled in the mouthpiece industry.
Second: The angle does feel different than normal geometry. There are several different degrees of negative angle and I have found none of them to be uncomfortable or unmanageable. Some feel better than others depending on your physical makeup.
Third: The mouthpiece design itself is something very unique and therefore plays much differently than any other mouthpiece on the market. Like the 4 Vintage models, each signature model has its own unique personality and feel that is really something special.
Lastly: The signature collection is expensive. The Vintage collection is also expensive, as has been discussed on this board extensively. It is also commonly known that the development of the rubber as well as design of the mouthpiece was much more costly than other mouthpieces on the market and is a drop in the bucket compared to the cost of new instruments.
If you haven't had the chance to try the vintage and signature collection mouthpieces, I would strongly encourage you to give them a try and see for yourself.
Disclaimer: I study mouthpiece refacing with Brad and work at his table at ICA, however I am not an employee nor do I have any financial contracts with Brad.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2011-12-30 01:00
Hi Dan,
Having never played an angled mouthpiece before, did you have Brad ship you each permutation?
Were you playing a Behn mouthpiece before this? Did you trial his Vintage offerings before or with the angled ones?
Thank you!
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2011-12-30 01:29
Hi Tobin,
Actually, I stopped playing quite some time ago after I developed embouchure dystonia.
I became excited about Brad's new design because I thought it might allow me to play again. Since I don't have the $$$ available, I guess I just keep wondering.
I don't think the desire to play the clarinet will ever leave me. I just love the tone of the instrument!
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Author: Claire Annette
Date: 2011-12-30 01:44
I like the idea and I personally find that my altissimo (and that of my students) tends to respond better with the clarinet pulled closer into the body.
Good grief, though! I have no doubt that these are wonderful mouthpieces made by a professional from the best material...but based on my paycheck and taking into account that, besides a new mouthpiece, I'm also in the market for a new barrel, I can't imagine spending that much money on a mouthpiece. More power to those who can, though, and I wish Mr. Behn continued success.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2011-12-30 02:11
Claire Annette wrote:
> I like the idea and I personally find that my altissimo (and
> that of my students) tends to respond better with the clarinet
> pulled closer into the body.
>
I'm having a lot of trouble understanding why the angled mouthpiece should make any difference in the response of the mouthpiece. It seems more about arm, hand, shoulder and back comfort (which are certainly important) than it does about the way the mouthpiece comes out of the player's embouchure, which can easily affect response. It looks to me as if the whole point is to allow the arms to come in to the angle at which the player is most comfortable holding the clarinet while allowing the mouthpiece angle to remain more consistently horizontal. Unless, of course, a player who plays with his arms closer finds a benefit in having the mouthpiece farther out than a conventional mouthpiece would be.
Karl
Post Edited (2011-12-30 02:13)
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2011-12-30 03:08
Claire Annette wrote:
> I like the idea and I personally find that my altissimo (and
> that of my students) tends to respond better with the clarinet
> pulled closer into the body.
Years ago when I was still playing, I found the above to be true also. I don't understand it, all I know is that I experienced it.
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Author: Claire Annette
Date: 2011-12-30 03:30
Dan, in my personal experience, pulling the horn in forces my jaw to drop and my embouchure to open up more, thus allowing more of the untouched reed surface inside the mouth to vibrate.
Ridenour (somewhere) talked about a technique that helps altissimo notes speak in which he suggests pushing the mouthpiece up by lifting the horn with the thumb at the thumbrest. In the body-close position, this is very easy to accomplish.
To get the same amount of reed to vibrate that I currently do, if I were plaing my clarinet in more of a horizontal than a vertical position, I would need to jut my jaw out. It's hard to paint this image in words, but hopefully my description makes a little sense.
Also, in case my earlier post in this thread sounded gauche, I mean absolutely no disrespect at all to Brad Behn. I only lament that the likelihood of my ever being able to own one of his finest mouthpieces seems financially doubtful. Indeed, from what I've read and heard, his mouthpieces deserve the clarinetist's lust for them that they inspire.
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2011-12-30 04:08
Claire, allowing more reed to vibrate may help the altissimo notes to speak better, however, I'm beginning to believe that how the focused air hits the reed has a much more powerful influence on altissimo notes than the amount of exposed reed itself. And, IMHO, this focused air is more powerful when the reed is in a more vertical position.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2011-12-30 05:56
Yes, looks like the Ferree's composite cork or something like that. I've tried many natural/synthetic/composite corks and this is by far the worst type IMO.
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Author: gwie
Date: 2011-12-30 07:04
Is the cork pictured in the site what he actually sells them with? Or is it just a photograph of prototypes where they just got put together with something temporary?
Post Edited (2011-12-30 07:05)
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2011-12-30 14:28
THis angled mouthpiece would be great for someone like me that has a big underbite (bottom teeth sticking out in front of the top teeth). Because of that, long lay mouthpieces work well for me being comfortable. Only problem is the price tag. I met him at clarinet fest and tried out the mouthpiece. It was very good. But he only can make that mouthpiece right now with his proprietary rubber, which drives the price out of the range I'm willing to pay.
I HAVE considered an angled barrel of which there are one or two out there. But in the meantime, I play by either standing further back from the stand, putting the stand to my side so my bell can protrude more, or if I'm sitting in a concert setting, tilting my head a little bit down so the bell doesn't hit the stand.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2011-12-30 15:16
Personally I think the whole idea of pulling the clarinet IN towards you IS to address the embouchure NOT the fingers, so I don't really get it.
When you bring in a normal mouthpiece this way you are making contact with the top teeth FURTHER UP and making contact with the lower teeth FURTHER DOWN. This gives you a FULCRUM rather than just an opposition of forces (top teeth directly over lower teeth).
There is SOOO much flexibility over how one can correctly and comfortably finger the clarinet I just can't see this as an important innovation......... of course some basset clarinets have angled barrels but this is just so the average person can actually reach the lowest mechanisms.
.....................Paul Aviles
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2011-12-30 16:22
There is sort of a connection with this product and Charles Bay's angled bass clarinet neck for Bundy Basses.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2011-12-30 18:20
Tobin wrote:
> From this page and it's description of the Signature series
> it's clear that Behn believes that these mouthpieces are an
> improvement in sound as well as posture.
>
Yes, but he doesn't seem to say why. It seems fairly clear as you look at the pictures on the demo web page that what it does is allow players who like to hold the instrument down to play with the mouthpiece more horizontal or, viewed slightly differently, it produces a more horizontal mouthpiece angle assuming the player doesn't change his/her accustomed arm position. This will almost certainly change the sound and response.
If a player prefers a more horizontal mouthpiece angle but doesn't like holding the instrument up high enough to produce it, this will allow a lower, perhaps more comfortable, arm position without sacrificing the horizontal mouthpiece angle (hence for this player it's more about arm position).
If a player actually likes the *mouthpiece* to come in at a more vertical angle (like Paul's concept of rotation against the top teeth), a mouthpiece angled in this direction will be 180 degrees counterproductive. To maintain the more vertical mouthpiece angle this player prefers, he'd need to be sitting on the bell.
Whether a more horizontal or more vertical angle actually produces greater flexibility, better intonation, easier altissimo, etc., is, of course, a fairly personal issue that depends a great deal on a player's personal physical features and expectation of what the mouthpiece and reed should feel like.
Karl
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Author: gsurosey
Date: 2011-12-30 18:21
A couple people at Eastman were poking around with this (my studio teacher showed it to me and got it from a professor there). I haven't played on it nor heard/seen anyone play on it, so I can't comment on how it plays. My teacher did say it was about a $700 mouthpiece.
----------
Rachel
Clarinet Stash:
Bb/A: Buffet R13
Eb: Bundy
Bass: Royal Global Max
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Author: William
Date: 2011-12-30 19:31
I seem to remember Charles Bay offering angled mouthpieces a few years ago. Seems more like a marketing gimick to me rather than something actually useful. Just me, I guess..........
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2011-12-30 19:37
Hi Karl,
I agree with your points. I do think it possible that there is some additional sound improvement solely through the geometry of the chamber as opposed to improved position leading to improved tone.
I was hoping that the OP had tried both types (Vintage/Signature) or that someone with extensive experience with Behn's mouthpieces would be able to provide some insight.
Regarding the angle-change to help achieve altissimo notes -- this is something that I was taught and I do teach. In my experience the advantage lies as Paul describes it. That being said -- I don't do this myself anymore. I know where those notes are and I play them.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: TianL
Date: 2011-12-30 23:28
i wish Brad would offer a cheaper version of this ... maybe made of cheaper material or something.
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Author: clarin-ed
Date: 2011-12-31 01:19
I recently had the opportunity to try both the Vintage (D model) and the Signature -4. After taking some time to get used to Behn's facings, I went with the Vintage. Something about the Signature didn't quite work for me, whether it be the angle or some other factor.
The Vintage is quite a satisfying mouthpiece, and is characterized by amazing clarity and resonance (two factors that I always felt were lacking in my playing). It is taking me some time to get used to, however, because of the reduced bite pressure that is required to play it. I was talking to Behn (great guy to work with BTW), and he mentioned that it might take 6 months to settle into the mouthpiece.
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Author: nezziesgappy
Date: 2012-01-01 18:07
Over the past few years I've used a number of bass clarinet mouthpieces starting with the Selmers (C-85, C*) both of which, to me, were a constant struggle regardless of reed or reed strength. If the lower register produced a resonant, robust sound with minimal resistance, the middle and especially upper registers were stuffy, buzzy and difficult to control. If I was able to improve on the middle register then the lower register became less reliable.
I experimented with a band-mates Vandoren B-45 but was only ever able to make it sound like a B 52 airplane......loud and buzzy......again regardless of reed. For about a year I also used the hand-crafted offerings of two very reputable mouthpiece makers and both were light years in improvement for me over the Selmers and Vandoren.
However,through a series of judicious trades I've recently acquired a Brad Behn Signature series bass clarinet mouthpiece which, for me, has resulted in discovering exactly what I needed in order to produce a solid sound regardless of register. This has meant a consistent ability to control a resonant, stable and rich quality of sound regardless of dynamic called for: ppp to fff.
The single biggest improvement has been the ease of being able to control air flow with just the right amount of resistance to be able to also control any overblowing. It took me several weeks to aclimate myself with the mouthpiece but with the help of my tech, who is a professional reed-player, I began to understand how to use the mouthpiece with my Buffet Prestige horn. He had never seen an angled mouthpiece and was fascinated by the mechanics at play. In his view it's a perfect match for the already angled Buffet neck on the Prestige model.
Every once in a while I do a blind-test comparison with the Behn and the other two hand-crafted ones I still have and each time the Behn consistently feels better. By the way, for what it's worth I find the Behn matches well with Vandoren V12s 2.5-3.0 as well as Legere 2.5-2.75.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2013-01-24 18:42
Quote:
i wish Brad would offer a cheaper version of this ... maybe made of cheaper material or something.
Sorry to dig up this old thread.
I don't know if it is new, but I recently saw that Brad is offering this design in a lower cost blank as well
http://www.behnmouthpieces.com/signature-collection/
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Author: Wes
Date: 2013-01-24 21:24
If someone can't afford one of these angled mouthpieces, try buying a very cheap mouthpiece and saw a wedge out of it with a thin hacksaw, gluing it back together with epoxy. Clean up the inside and see how an angled mouthpiece would feel to you. Good luck!
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Author: Brent
Date: 2013-01-28 16:20
I actually did that with a barrel, to get the same effect--I cut it on a bit of an angle, turned one part around and glued it back together--presto! An angled barrel. It was an old no-name hard rubber barrel i had sitting around, so i wasn't out any money (but such a thing can be found pretty cheap).
I discovered that for me it wasn't enough of an advantage to be worth pursuing.
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Author: arogows
Date: 2013-06-28 13:25
I recently purchased a Bradford Behn "Signature" clarinet mouthpiece and wanted to describe my experience with it. First of all let me note that I am new to the forum and clarinet playing in general. I have been a saxophone player for 40+ years and out of necessity needed to start playing clarinet again for the first time since high school. I have been studying with a clarinet teacher for the last five months. I purchased a Buffet B12 clarinet and a Vandoren M13 mouthpiece. Let me begin by saying that my clarinet technique has come along surprisingly fast but my tone has been very stuffy and weak. After trying many mouthpieces and reeds provided by my teacher with varying degrees of success he let me try his Brad Behn “Signature” mouthpiece. For the first time, my tone was wonderful and playing the clarinet was a joy. I am convinced that the angle of the mouthpiece and the facing 1) assisted me in holding the mouthpiece at the optimal angle and 2) is simply a great easy blowing mouthpiece. I contacted Brad Behn and ordered my own “Signature” mouthpiece. It arrived in about a week and all I can say is that daily practice is now something I look forward to. I can work on technique more because now the clarinet responds to me. The mouthpiece is expensive and not for everyone, but seeing how this is probably the last clarinet mouthpiece I will ever buy it was a good investment for me. I realize that countless clarinetists’ have had great success with all sorts of mouthpieces, but Brad’s design is what took my playing to a new level.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2013-06-28 18:29
I'm grateful that this thread was revived just after I had a chance to meet Brad Behn at the Oklahoma Clarinet Symposium. I stand corrected on the angled mouthpieces. There is an explanation on the website about the internal tone chamber (just imagine how much longer the baffle can be just having a little more room!). This internal tone chamber alteration IS the reason for the angles NOT how you hold the clarinet. Brad is coming up with an "invisible angle" version with many of the same benefits.
Of course I have now a DIFFERENT hurdle to surmount with regards to the Behn line of mouthpieces. His overarching philosophy (though he caters to individual needs) is to make facings much closer so that there is no need to "pinch" the reed in closer with embouchure pressure. This sounds great in theory but for me, I need to feel more in control of the whole process of sound and pitch which includes having that little bit of spring board effect in the lay. Whether or not this is ideal, a majority of longer lay mouthpieces are designed this way and it is the way I've played for many, many years. I don't want to change my approach at this stage.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2013-06-28 21:53
So what's the point ? If the Clarinet ends up being held at an angle much lower than approximately 45 deg this means that the projection that is attained out of the bell is negated.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2013-06-28 22:23
I personally do not believe that the sound of the clarinet is dependent on the physical angle of the horn with relationship to the audience (as long as we are talking about any kind of angle that points eventually downward that is). The sound of the clarinet is much more omni directional in quality (and probably benefits more from a reflective scenario).
Ultimately one's projection is reliant on the airstream that is produced (concentrated, FAST and supported).
Think about it, if there were a clarinetist sitting far "stage left," facing straight out and you were seated far "house left," you would still hear the clarinetist perfectly. You WOULDN'T say, "he looks like he's playing but I just can't hear him, I wish he'd point this way."
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2013-06-28 23:03
In the early 90's in Belgium, a Clarinetist was making angled Mouthpieces (Piet Jaegers if I recall) for various occlusion types.
Occlusion is either overbite, underbite, crossbite (though I doubt that is a crossbite mouthpiece).
Someone with an overbite will pull the Clarinet inward, and overbite players tend to play with the Clarinet quite outward.
The Mouthpieces were designed to make it so that the player would have the Clarinet in the "traditional neutral" position angle, close to where the knee starts.
It's a cool concept!!
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Gosseyn
Date: 2013-07-19 05:43
I recently purchased Brad Behn's Signature -4 mouthpiece, the model with maximum angle away from the norm. Must say it is expensive but worth it.
Best mouthpiece I've ever used - absolute huge improvement in resonance. (Now going to retire my other professional mouthpieces.) No issues at all getting used to the more upright attitude. Submitted a review for any interested in recent posts.
Regards,
Gosseyn
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Author: Peter B
Date: 2013-07-19 13:52
Piet Jeegers (http://www.pietjeegers.nl, in Dutch) does indeed make mouthpieces adapted for overbite and underbite. I don't think they're angled (at least, my wife's PJ mouthpiece isn't). According to the brief explanation on his website, it's achieved by adapting tip opening, length and the chamber.
He's actually Dutch and living in the Netherlands, but studied clarinet in Brussels, Belgium in the 70's and is active in both countries.
Regards,
Peter.
Post Edited (2013-07-19 13:53)
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Author: NBeaty
Date: 2013-07-19 16:41
I was just checking out the Piet Jeegers website. A few things might be a translation failure (made from plastic, one can only hope that's a translation issue). It would appear that the mouthpieces each have different facings to accommodate various over and underbites.
This is not a bad idea, but has been done much longer than I've been alive. A mouthpiece will feel better when the length of the facing accommodates for their point of contact with the reed. From what I've heard, Marcellus had quite an overbite, which could be interpreted in a number of ways regarding his playing and interaction with the instrument.
Adjusting a facing to fit someone's physical structure is nothing new. Please feel free to add information about the Jeegers website if there's anything else worth noting.
It's also worth noting that Brad Behn's signature collection is under patent.
In addition- the material can't be copied (it would be cost and R and D prohibitive). To make the material, a company would have to be willing to have a mouthpiece in that price category in the first place, then figure out how to make it. Even if someone made it through that, they would have to design something completely different.
The more traditional design features (bore design, facings, rail work, etc.) are hard to copy to that level.
I've been using a Signature collection prototype (two different ones actually) for a little over two years. It's the steepest angle (more so than the -4). The feel and the sound are different than anything else out there (in design and result).
See Behn's website for the wealth of information regarding material and design. He has certainly made my life easier as a mouthpiece technician, by both teaching me the process and skills and providing (selling) me mouthpieces that are in a tear that no one else can create. This saves me from constantly wanting to tweak and adjust whatever mouthpiece I would have been playing otherwise!
The only mouthpiece that has come close to the vintage collection (non-angled) was an Henri Chedeville from a prominent teacher\player in the US. While I still preferred my Vintage Model D, the Henri at least had some of the resonance characteristics I enjoy. Considering that was an excellent Henri Chedeville, I'd say Brad Behn's design, material, and concepts are better than most any Henri Chedeville you can find.
To summarize my experience with the Signature collection mouthpieces (having played all of them, in varying angles, designs, and materials), I can say a few things that set them apart:
1) Material (see Brad's website for a full explanation)
2) A very comfortable facing (0.96mm\36) is accommodating to the design, since the resistance of the curve of the air provides just enough working resistance. A very responsive, free, and resonant facing (with very thin rails) comes alive with the material and a vibrant reed. This resistance involved with the curve from the angle is a much different type of resistance than putting the resistance in the facing\tip opening\rail width\bore etc.
3) The angle has provided me with the ability to hold the clarinet at a variety of angles, but all relatively close to the body. Overall physical comfort has been very nice for both overall playing health and for those days where you have to play a few hours past what's comfortable for a day of playing.
4) Each style has a very unique voice. the -0, -2, -4 all feel distinctly different. Some are overall brighter than others, some the opposite. Overall, each mouthpiece is as playable and beautiful as the next, but there is a voice and an angle to fit most any type of player. The vintage collection (traditional angle) mouthpieces fit most players as well.... a very wide array of styles and designs that service players of all types.
These mouthpieces are worth a try, and for many worth a buy.
I'm convinced that there are people out there that have physical issues that effect their health and comfort playing the clarinet that could be alleviated with something like this. For people currently without issues, it would help in the span of a lifetime to reduce stress on various parts of the arm and neck.
Personally, I broke my back a few years ago. Being able to hold my head higher and have a more proper posture, I'm able to stay out of pain for much longer during rehearsals and practice sessions. While I do play traditional mouthpieces when refacing, I don't like playing them for very long due to various body parts having to move to the clarinet rather than the clarinet coming to me.
Usual Disclaimer:
As most of you know by now, I have a connection with Brad Behn (as a teacher) but have nothing to gain financially from supporting his business. I only support it because I know it to be a superior product scientifically, but also that each one is a work of art made to help others communicate their art as well as possible.
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