 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: orchestr
Date: 2011-12-24 21:35
This has been mentioned in a couple of posts (http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=308327&t=308309, http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=258526&t=257224, search for "bounce"), but I couldn't really find a good solution. On my Buffet R-13 A clarinet, when I release the F#/C# key while I'm holding down either the E/B key or F/C key, there is a slight "bounce" in the sound when the pad closes. It happens with both the RH and LH keys. If I release the key more slowly or deliberately, it doesn't bounce, but in fast passages, sometimes you just can't be that deliberate (I'm noticing this issue most in the 2nd page of the first movement of Contrasts). Has anyone successfully fixed this issue? On my old clarinet, my repair woman told me that the spring was reversed somehow (not sure what that means), but it still had the bouncing problem. I'm going to see her next week, so I wanted to bring whatever knowledge I could garner from this board. More spring tension? Thicker spring? Softer pad? Any suggestions would be appreciated!
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2011-12-25 04:20
By reversed spring she probably meant how the spring is attached to the key and its cradle is a small groove in the body, and not attached to the post with a cradle on the key. Buffet uses it for the F#/C# key. It's not a great design, at least the way they do it.
This "reversed" spring shouldn't cause the key to bounce, or at least not because it's "reversed". Actually on most Buffet clarinets the feel of this key is relatively stiff, unless improved. If your clarinet is an R13 then it probably has the same "reversed" spring for this key.
For the bounce, it depends where it's coming from.
If it's form the key itself, I guess it is either the spring not strong enough or there isn't enough tension in it. In this case the solution is most likely to increase the spring tension, or if you like the feel now, it might be possible to deal with it in another way.
It's also possible that the spring is just fine and the bounce is coming from the lever. This key works in a way that the pad closes, then the lever might have some free play and might bounce. It can move with the key even if you don't use it.
First, you can try holding both the F/C key pressed and the left hand F#/C# lever in the unpressed position i.e. have its "lower" end (low in comparison with the clarinet body length) touch the body, so when you are free to use the F#/C# key without its left hand lever moving. Then check the F#/C# key for bounce.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2011-12-25 14:05
For me it's all in the spring being too weak. Of course the solution is to bend it more. To get to this one you need to take pretty much everything off the bottom...... paddle keys as well as all the bottom stuff. And the REAL problem then is the Ab/Eb key because you need to be very careful disengaging and reengaging this spring or it too will become too weak (and blow open when you play - perhaps only noticeably in the lack of fulness to sound).
If you're not comfortable fixing your own clarinet, get it to a reliable repair person since this is pretty much the meat of clarinet adjustment.
..................Paul Aviles
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2011-12-26 04:37
I'm going with the spring action also. When putting the key back on the clarinet it is pretty easy to bend the spring the wrong way. You can buy these special needle tools that push the springs in, without damage. It looks like a croshet needle but at the top of the needle it has a groove cut out. Check out some of the places that sell pads, cork, springs and perhaps these croshet type of tool.
I lost mine many years ago so I went into a place that carries knitting supplies and bought a package of them for less then $5.
So if you can't find this tool buy a croshet needle and use a Dremel with a bit that will cut into the top of the needle, which will push the clarinet spring back into place with the correct tension.
If you are going nuts getting the correct tension I would buy one from a repair supply place and spend the extra money, because they do work better then what I came up with, but for $5 it works ok but not great.
Ask your repair lady to replace the weak spring, if needed and see if she will sell you that tool or ask her how to order one.
As a repairman this is the hardest spring to adjust. Watching the great Hans Moenig, in Philly work on that set of keys could take him up to 2 hours getting that tension perfect, replacing the springs if needed and the pads laying flat. I was always amazed at his persistence. Perhaps thats why he was one of the best, perhaps the best.
I'm sure glad there are more great techs now. RGB has 2 really fine technicians there and they are very nice. Located in Los Angeles. If anyone needs the phone numbers send an email.
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Author: orchestr
Date: 2011-12-26 23:49
Thanks for the suggestions. I am going to see her tomorrow, and we'll see what we come up with. I think I can handle a pretty strong spring and still be comfortable with the action. I might have her use a softer pad as well, since as far as I can tell the only thing stopping that key/pad is the body of the clarinet where the pad covers the hole, so that's where the "bounce" would occur, from the pad slightly rebounding off of the clarinet.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-12-27 00:20
I'm sure I speak for most people on here when saying Buffet's method of springing and subequent balancing and refitting the RH F#/C# key is a PAIN IN THE A**E!
If they can spring the LH F/C lever in the conventional manner considering how close it lies to the joint surface, then why not the RH F#/C# key as well? The large majority of other clarinet makers do this, so why not Buffet?
Either the action feels too stiff or sluggish when the spring is tensioned too much or it bounces or flaps around if the tension is set too weak - finding a happy medium is near impossible. It's one of the most difficult keys to balance properly because of its design. Getting the bend right in the spring also has a huge impact on how it performs - and again, getting the bend just right to make it work well is also a black art.
Howarth clarinets also have the F#/C# key sprung in this manner, but the difference here is the end of the spring sits in a slot milled into the large flange of the pillar base. So being metal, that at least gives a better surface for the spring tip to run against - on Buffets, the spring tip is running against a slot milled into the wood and through use it digs into it.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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