 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: rick77
Date: 2011-12-16 12:51
I've been trying out the Vandoren V12 reeds over the past few weeks and found that they seem to need an extensive break in period before they are ready for optimum performance. I'd like to hear from others about how they break their reeds in, especially those that use Vandoren reeds.
My process is pretty simple. On day one I soak each reed for about 15 to 20 minutes before playing them. I play the softer reeds no more than 5 minutes on the first day. The harder reeds I'll play 10 to 15 minutes on day one.
The second day I'll soak the reeds for 10 minutes and play them for about 10 minutes. On day three I soak the reeds for about 5 minutes then play them for 15 minutes.
Day 4 and 5 is pretty much a repeat of day three. On days 6 and 7 I soak the reeds for about 5 minutes but play them a little longer than 15 minutes.
I wish I didn't have to bother with this break in process but the Vandaoren reeds just don't play well out of the box for me.
On tenor and soprano sax I don't bother with a strict breaking in process. I just wet a reed and start playing. The Rico Jazz Select 3(Med) (filed) reeds are pretty playable out of the box although they do improve with a little playing time. I wish I could be as lucky on clarinet with reeds breaking in easily.
I'd love to hear other's process for breaking in reeds.
Thanks!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: luca1
Date: 2011-12-16 13:15
Wow - I would not think of soaking the reed initally (or indeed ever) for 15-20 minutes! I have just been researching methods myself and found both Nucccio and Ridenour have vidoes on this topic. Neither of them "soak" the reed for more than a minute - and the first few play periods last seconds ... not minutes.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2011-12-16 13:22
I'm a Rico performance artist so I no longer use Vandoren's, never really was successful with them anyway except on bass clarinet, but the break in process should be the same for any brand. I think you take much to much time doing what you do. I'm especially against soaking reeds, I think that ruins the cane and makes them more likely to warp in the near future, that's just me but my reeds never warp, sealing on the facing, and I mean never. I have a whole process explained in detail on my website on my breaking in and sustaining process. Give it a try for a few boxes in the near future and see if it doesn't help, and in a lot less time then you do. For me, and many of my students in the past, this works very well. By the way, since Rico makes 5-6 professional cuts you should try them some time. My favorite are the Thick Blank and the Reserves but of course that's individual. ESP eddiesclarinet.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bb R13 greenline
Date: 2011-12-16 14:10
I wet my reeds and let them dry out at least 10 times then when I'm going to play the reed I soak the butt for 4-5 minutes and the tip for 30 seconds. Then I play them for 30 seconds the first day, a minute the second, 2 minutes the third day, 5 the fourth, 10 the fifth and 30 the 6th. By then they are broken in. Once broken in I adjust them if needed
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2011-12-16 15:26
I play 56s and soak in water for about 2 1/2 minutes initially before 5 minutes of play. I do this three days in a row before playing any more on each reed. I liked the break-in described by 'Greensline' too.
My feeling about the LONG soak is that it may water log your reed before you even start. However, I feel that water in the reed fibers help to insulate against the possible ill effects of saliva (loaded with digestive acids). This of course is a very subjective topic (we ALL have our own rituals to be sure). And you sound successful with your method albeit a bit worn out from it.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
.................Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2011-12-16 16:56
I explain on my website on the reed pages why you should never ever wet the half of the reed that has the bark on it. I know many people don't agree with this but it is not a theory but a fact. Unless, like me, you have never had a clarinet reed not seal on the facing of the mouthpiece then you should look into what I suggest about that. All wood of any type, that of course includes reed cane, will warp when it goes from wet to dry and back, especially several times. That's why wood warps. In short, by never allowing the lower half of the reed, which of course is the thickest and strongest since it has the bark, it helps prevent the upper portion of the reed to avoid warping. It's worked for me for over 30 years since I've been doing it and as I've said, I truly have never had a clarinet reed not seal on the facing of my MP no matter how old the reed may be. I've had reeds last for months and months in rotation. Yes, I do keep them humidity controlled to, these days in a Rico Vitalizer but in the past with a Dampit and a sponge before that. I mean it, NEVER! How many of you can truly say that? ESP
PS. for those that don't know what sealing means, it's when even a tiny bit of air escapes between the back of the reed and the facing of the MP because there's even the slightest curve in the wood either in a very slight u shape or one side of the cane is slightly higher than the other allowing air to get in-between the cane and the MP. This produces deployed attacks and squeaks and at times, other strange noises. eddiesclarinet.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: luca1
Date: 2011-12-16 17:07
I very much agree with Ed about NEVER wetting the butt end of the reed ... as does Tom Ridenour in his video on reeds. They will play better ... and last longer.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Le9669
Date: 2011-12-16 17:09
there's something really wrong if you're soaking them for 10- 15 minutes.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: rick77
Date: 2011-12-16 17:38
I'm glad to hear the wonderful advice being offered in this thread. Like I said in my initial post I'm primarily a sax player and don't really bother too much with a strict process of breaking in reeds for my saxes.
But Since I've been taking the clarinet seriously the past year I've been trying to find a reed set-up that works well for me. The Vandoren reeds I've been playing don't play so well right out of the box so I've been trying to give them what I thought was a proper breaking in process.
In the saxophone world I was taught to pre-soak reeds for 20-30 minutes the first day and play for maybe 5 minutes. Day two decrease the soak time and increase the play time etc., until the reeds are broken in. I rarely used that process on sax reeds but thought I needed to use that process for the Vandoren clarinet reeds.
After reading this thread I feel that maybe my sax reed break-in process may actually be more proper than my clarinet reed break-in process. Just wet a reed, put in on the mpc and play.
That's interesting about not soaking the bark section of the reed. I think I'll try that along with just soaking for a minute or two then playing the reeds for a minute or two the first day. That actually sounds like it'll be much easier. I like doing things the easy way.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Clarimeister
Date: 2011-12-16 19:12
I agree. I use a combination of Eddie's break-in process as well as Mark Nuccio's explained the on the Rico video. They're both pretty much the same idea. Do not overwet (i never soak, just wet for a few seconds) and then play for only a few seconds (a couple scales in the low to mid registers) for the first day and gradually build from there. As a musician, you should never have to work harder than you already have to. Especially for some dumb piece of plant.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: rick77
Date: 2011-12-16 19:39
Hey Ed, I think I may just try the Rico Reeds maybe in a thick blank cut. What strength/cut would compare to Vandoren V12 3.5's? That's about the strength of reed that works well on my set-up.
FWIW I never cared for Vandoren reeds on saxes. I use Rico Jazz Select (Med) strictly on both tenor and soprano saxes. So high end Rico reeds may be better for me on the clarinet too. I'll check 'em out.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Buster
Date: 2011-12-16 20:13
Something to consider,
Soak a reed only up to the bark all you want; until the xylem seal-off completely, the bark covered portion is absorbing water.
*Place a reed in a film canister with water up to the bark-line. If you wait long enough, you will see the butt end completely wet.
The "fibers" of the reed are actually very small hollow tubes (xylem) that wick water throughout the reed- until their ends are sealed. (Or to be accurate, clogged shut- be it with oil or whatever.)
Warping occurs when the reed dries unevenly- as has been stated. However, this is not merely the surface of the reed drying at differing rates, it is mostly the internal xylem drying at differing rates.
If it is truly desired that the bark covered portion absorb no water, then the reed needs to be completely sealed (xylem ends closed) before any water is introduced into the equation.
I am not attempting to bash anybody's method of reed preparation, but simply state the facts if you truly wish to never wet the bark covered portion.
------------
My method is quite simplistic, but as many options are proffered above, I will refrain from adding to the melee unless so desired.
-Jason
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2011-12-17 18:12
Rick, I'm not really sure about the strength. Perhaps try a box of 3.5 on the thick blank and then see if they are too soft. If you really want to make a small investment you should also try one of the Reserves, maybe the 3.75 or 4s on those. They make two cuts of the Reserve, perhaps the classic would be a good try. ESP
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed
Date: 2011-12-17 18:34
I agree that you are likely soaking them too long. There seem to be many opinions on reeds. I think the best thing is to try the many ideas to find what you like and to stick with it. I have even heard of folks who store their reeds in water, which does not make sense to me.
For strength, take a look at
http://www.daddario.com/resources/Rico/ClarinetStrengths.html
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: woodwindscott
Date: 2011-12-18 01:06
Great topic for discussion.
One thought that I will offer before outlining my break-in process is to suggest aging the reeds before you play them. Many people disagree, but I have found that opening the "humidity sealed" package immediately and letting the reeds age for at least 3-6 months helps a great deal in their playability and consistency.
I thought it was ridiculous at first, but a friend mentioned that he had been aging his for five years! He and I both agree that Vandoren reeds used to play much better before their switch to individually packaging each reed. When my students were having enormous difficulty getting the reeds playable, let alone consistent, I purchased several boxes and opened all of the reeds exposing them to the air. After 3 months, the reeds definitely softened a bit and showed better results in finding quality reeds and playing consistently over time.
Now I just open the box and cut of the tip of the individual reed packaging, date the box and let it sit for 3-6 months.
As far as my own break-in process, I use the 10-day break-in procedure outlined by Larry Guy's "Selection, Adjustment and Care of Single Reeds". It works beautifully, starting out with a 1-minute soak, 2 minute playing period and properly drying them out on glass. Over the 10 days, I perform different procedures to the reeds and extend their playing period.
For my students, I usually recommend 5-minutes a day for 5 days. Start with a one-minute soak in water (maximum), play for 5 minutes and then dry it off and move on to the next one. If a reed is too hard to play, soaking it for a really long time won't provide a permanent solution. Instead, I instruct them to take those reeds off after the first 10 seconds (you know if it is too hard), dry it off and put it away for another 6 months. Reeds will soften over time. It is a much better option than either playing with a reed that is clearly too hard or throwing it away.
Good luck!
Scott Moore, www.ncmusiclessons.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
