 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: C.Elizabeth07
Date: 2011-12-09 16:53
Sorry I'm posting so much lately, I had a few questions about some orchestral excerpts. I tried to search for them to see if they'd been asked before but I couldn't find them (or maybe I'm just oblivious and missed them) but anyway..here goes...
Capriccio Espagnol- I was reading in Hadcocks book that for the trills in the first movement if you can't do two trills without making the 16th late do one and a half trills by starting on the top note. Lets say its the first trill in that passage where its a tr on E, would it be F-E-F or F-E-F-E? I guess I'm confused on what 11/2 trill would be. Is this a practice you would use?
Daphnis et Chloe 2 - in the opening with the running 12's, would you group them in 6's and think of them as 2+2+2 or 3+3?
Beethoven 6- Movement 1 (the excerpt at the end with the continuous articulated triplets), things start out good but I feel like towards the end of the passage my tongue gets "bogged down" and I begin to drag a bit. Idea's on how I can practice this differently? I usually practice it slurred then legato tongued, then as written.
And for reeds.... I'm from Long Island, NY (elevation of 14 feet). I'm traveling to auditions in Michigan (840 ft), Chicago (583 ft) and Montreal (764 ft) I know altitude and weather/humidity affect reeds and I know how the different seasons where I live effect my reeds. I'm just curious if there is anything I should do with reeds to prepare for these locations in February. (Just for the record I play on Vandoren 56's 4- 4.5)
Sorry if this is a lot or has been asked previously
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2011-12-09 18:48
I've nothing to offer on the excerpts except to pass along Janet Jonquil's practice. During the day, she works on what she knows to need refinement. Just before sleep, she plays through the excerpts and records them.
At breakfast, she listens to her recordings and makes notes to guide her day's work.
With respect to reeds: I feel for you. I'd hope that there's not a lot of difference in air density over the altitude range you'll experience. I live and practice at 2700 feet and take my lessons about 50-miles away (crow fly distance) at about 2400 feet. Often I'll warm up here a pick a "lesson reed," only to find that on the other end, that reed sucks. I've also taken a pack of reeds fiddled to work here to lessons at 5000+ feet and had mixed results.
You might want to take some new reeds along with your adjusting equipment with you and spend some time breaking in and adjusting before your "challenge."
The whole scientific reasons for reeds being sensitive to atmospheric condition frustrates me. I just don't get it. Air pressure and humidity affect the density of the air, and density affects the dynamic pressure due to air movement, so I can see that there would be an effect from altitude and moisture (two of your playing venues are likely to be as humid as your hometown), but it should be small compared to what we do with our air streams.
Further, the reed is operating on pre-warmed and humidified air from your lungs --at about 98.6 def F and 100% humidity, and it seems that that would mitigate (if not over ride) the properties of the air you capture to use to play.
I have done some trials with Forestone reeds between here and my lessons and find them unaffected by the movement.
Best of luck to you.
Bob Phillips
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Author: C.Elizabeth07
Date: 2011-12-09 20:01
That's generally my practice routine as well, although I record then listen to them before I go to bed and create my practicing schedule/to-do-list then.
Thanks for the help with reeds. Do you know if they tend to feel lighter/weaker or heavier/more resistant as the altitude goes up?
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2011-12-09 23:50
I'd say:
F-E-F would be 1 and a 1/2
Daphnis is DEFINITELY 2+2+2.
The best advice on Beethoven came from Marcellus who suggested to say to yourself over the last triplets "three..... two ....... one," with respect to volume that is. This always helped me keep it going.
And if the speed is really an issue you could actually try using triple tonguing (Tee-Kee-Tee, Tee-Kee-Tee; Tee-Kee-Tee, Tee-Kee-Tee; Tee-Kee-Tee, Tee-Kee-Tee, Tee) [ 'kee' sound being a spot further back on your tongue and against the roof of your mouth ]
....................Paul Aviles
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Author: C.Elizabeth07
Date: 2011-12-10 02:25
Awesome thanks so much! I figured Daphnis was 2+2+2 but I wanted to double check, I've been working it both ways anyway for even-ness. I'm going to try that with the Beethoven. Thanks again, very helpful!
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Author: Wes
Date: 2011-12-10 04:11
It is my belief that reeds exposed to daily variations in barometric pressure absorb moisture from the air with pressure increases but may not expel it when the pressure reduces, making the reed stiffer due to the entrapped moisture. I have not experienced this much as a clarinet player but, as an oboe player, I see it a lot. The fix for this is to put the reeds under an incandescent lamp for a few minutes to dry out the embedded moisture. If I don't do it regularly, my reeds are way too stiff The reeds can be kept in a "dry box" or, at least, in a somewhat sealed container.
While no one else seems to talk about this, some well known oboists do this to save their skin in a difficult situation. Good luck!
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Author: LJBraaten
Date: 2011-12-10 05:11
Hmm... I live at 2300 feet where I do most of my practicing. I also play 2 to 4 times a week at 100 - 300 feet, where it is warmer and a bit drier. I've never noticed any problems with my reeds. Now I'm wondering if maybe there is a slight difference that I haven't noticed -- I'll pay closer attention.
Laurie (he/him)
Post Edited (2011-12-10 16:12)
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Author: Alexis
Date: 2011-12-10 15:59
Sorry to provide contradictory information, but it would be F E F E, otherwise it will sound like an F with a lower mordent
It still needs to sound like a trill on E, so at the very least, finish on the the E
If you don't find it hard to slur the Beethoven without getting tense at the end, then check that you aren't doing something different in regards to your air when you are tonguing. If you can't get through slurring without getting tense, then I would suggest you fix that. But difficult to say anything more without seeing you play.
I would never use triple tonguing for something this slow - unless you're really good the difference between the t and k would be far too audible, and besides, this excerpt does not require a unusually fast single tongue.
I've worked as a professional clarinettist in Australia and the UK. You don't have to take it as gospel, but I have a pretty good idea of what I'm talking about.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2011-12-10 16:34
Wes,
I'm curious as to how you might think that moisture in a reed makes it harder/stiffer.
My vision of a soggy reed is that it gets, well, soggy.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2011-12-10 17:21
I agree with Alexis about the trills. Hadcock actually writes, "... start from the upper note and then do one [trill] after that..." Because, one trill would be EFE, I think Hadcock is clearly suggesting FEFE.
If you are on Facebook (and who, your age, isn't these days), you have access to Spotify. If you search for "Larry Combs" without the quotes, the very first entry is his discussion of Capriccio Espagnole on the excerpts CD he made. He clearly uses single (3-note) trills for the trills in Hadcock's Example 1. He uses double (5-note) trills for the trills in Hadcock's Example 2 that are slurred into the following eighth notes, but single-trills where the following eighth notes are articulated. If you can sound like he does, I don't think you have to worry.
A little further down the list, Combs also discusses and illustrates the Beethoven.
Best regards,
jnk
Post Edited (2011-12-10 17:25)
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Author: Buster
Date: 2011-12-10 20:08
Not that it excuses any of us from coming to grips with how we address the trills in Capriccio:
There is a quite well known recording from a quite well known clarinetist whom plays the entire 1st mvmt. solo with single trills (actually mordents to be accurate.)
Beyond that all I can say is that Rimsky-Korsakov wrote trills....
-Jason
Post Edited (2011-12-10 20:08)
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Author: Alexis
Date: 2011-12-11 01:05
Agreed, trills are much better
Given a choice I would rather hear slightly wild trills, over mordants, or even the half trill - it's an exciting solo! I can't speak for your panel though...
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2011-12-11 02:06
Clarinet Music - Excerpts and Parts
Copy and paste on the search! Hopfully it will work.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2011-12-11 02:07)
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Author: Buster
Date: 2011-12-11 03:22
"Wild" may be a bit over stated- "energetic" is perhaps a bit more apt- but any hint of "a-rythmic" is suspect.
It could be a trifle nit-picky, but it may be worthwhile to investigate/extrapolate a bit and try to decipher what those "trills" serve- or better, where they come from.
Alborada literally means dawn in Spanish (madrugada in Mexican-Spanish.) An alborada is an Asturian/Galician song intended to "begin the day"- "or greet the morning."
A bit of aural investigation into that genre may enlighten a bit what served as "inspiration" for Rimski-Korsakov. ....Or perhaps why trills are written instead of mordents -or even why the embellishment is present to begin with.
Armed with that information we can then decide not only what is played, but how they can be treated.
Beyond that I can only say that Rimsky-Korsakov wrote trills.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKUTuHsu6aA
-Jason
Post Edited (2011-12-11 05:12)
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Author: Alexis
Date: 2011-12-11 13:42
Yes wild is probably too much.
Interesting - have not done that research. Using internal reference points, I think they are imitations of what the triangle and tambourine do at the start. The word shake springs to mind, and they give energy to the bar line (and later to individual beats). I think mordents would fail to imitate this effectively. Hence trills.
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