 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: oca
Date: 2011-12-09 00:08
Hello CBB. I wish to discuss the barrel and the bell of the clarinet.
The barrel of the clarinet seems able to be capable of influencing the sound in several ways.
One, the addition of a different wood to your clarinet (high end clarinets are usually made from one slab of wood, might change the timbre of the clarinet. Two, the addition of a particular species of wood might inflence timbre as the natural frequency of each wood is different with its own harmonics. Three, the length of the barrel changes pitch for tuning. Four, the addition or subtraction of mass of the barrel, will supress or bring out different harmonics, thus the "dark" and "bright" sound.
These are all the elements of change that I think can think of. Some companies say that some barrels add resistance to the blowing of the clarinet, which I believe to be a bit on the ridiculous side. Given that the bore diameter is the same as the body and lower mouthpiece, the airflow should be unaltered, and I highly doubt that barrels are capable of hardening your reed.
Bells I am very curious about. Physically the bell directs any sound that reaches it into a acute cone. However, when it comes to sound quality I only see the bell influencing two notes of the whole clarinet, four at the maximum. These notes are the low E (E3) and the clarion B (B4), and the other two notes that might be affected are low F (F3) and clarion C (C5). For all other notes, I believe the bell is useless.
Let me raise an analogy. A student is taking a test. The student needs help on a problem. He attempts to recall the formula. After he turns the test in, the student now remembers the formula that would have made him/her score better on the test.
The clarinet bell is placed at the bottom of the clarinet. Sound waves that it can influence will only come if the sound does not escape through any hole above the position of he bell, thus all the holes must be covered, producing a low E or clarion B. The low F or clarion C might be close enough to be influenced minutely.
The point of the analogy is that there is no point (except to focus sound) in attaching a bell if the sound will be not be affected by it much like there is no point in discovering the right answer to a question after the test has been handed as the quiz grade will not be affected by it.
I am not declarig my viewpoint as the absolute truth as this is only my observation, and I am very curious to what others think about barrels and bells.
P.S. I have no idea if this applies to bells with "voice grooving"
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Author: DrewSorensenMusic
Date: 2011-12-09 00:20
I don't care how my Clark Fobes barrel gets it done, I just know I'll never play another gig without it. Sweeter throat tones, more focus throughout the instrument, fascilitated high notes. I'm a huge fan.
I am interested in the Backun bell, but man is it expensive. Might help fascilitate the register break, so may try it soon. Tried to order some Backun barrels, but WWBW sent me the Selmer ones that don't fit my R13 greenline.
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Author: oca
Date: 2011-12-09 00:24
Can I ask you what the difference between a R13 and a R13 greenline?
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2011-12-09 00:37
The Greenline is made from grenadilla dust (left over from manufacturing other clarinets) and an epoxy-type resin, which are then compressed and molded into clarinet-shaped parts. In theory, the Greenlinematerialis impervious to weather-related cracking, but it tends to exhibit marked structural weakness at the tenons, according to a number of anecdotal reports here and elsewhere.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2011-12-09 00:38
The board was being quirky and posted twice. Sorry!
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
Post Edited (2011-12-09 00:51)
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Author: DrewSorensenMusic
Date: 2011-12-09 01:05
I got the greenline 8 years ago, thinking it would be a great instrument, especially as a backup if I ever I got another wood clarinet, and I wouldn't have to worry about it. 8 years long, and not a flaw on it, and I've treated it pretty harshly. Been on 8 different cruise ships, across the US, even to Europe. I haven't tried an all wood clarinet in a while, but the greenline has suited me quite well, especially in cold pits, so haven't needed to.
If I were performing in the NY Phil, I'd get a festival, all grenadilla, but since it sits on stands in our North East dry and cold climate while I play the overture to the music man for the 200th time, I'm happy to have the reliability.
PS - To all you Musical Theater snobs, while I have played the music man a bunch, I luckily have not played it 200 times, I do not remember what instrument I played when I did, and I am grateful for both of those facts. It's just an anecdote that should be taken with a light heart.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2011-12-09 01:07
oca wrote:
> Some companies say that some barrels add resistance to the
> blowing of the clarinet, which I believe to be a bit on the
> ridiculous side. Given that the bore diameter is the same as
> the body and lower mouthpiece,
Given where? This is simply not true. The bore dimensions of barrels are almost as variable as the weather. Bores can be straight or reverse tapered (bigger at the top than the bottom). The tapers are different from one maker to another and even among different barrels of the same design from the same maker (why this is, I couldn't tell you). And those differences in bore shape and measurement can indeed affect the resistance.
The same is true, incidentally, for bells, although it isn't discussed as much.
Karl
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Author: DrewSorensenMusic
Date: 2011-12-09 02:11
I once worked with a flute headjoint maker that is currently creating this effect in flute headjoints. The effect is called baffling, which as a noun a baffle can be a static device that regulates the flow of fluid (air, yes air in is a fluid in physics). The inner shapes of clarinet barrels act as baffles, and the different shapes from the different makers causes the difference in sound quality. Since barrels act at the beginning of the instrument (for every tone), and bells just in the lowest tones of the clarinet (the other tones vent higher up the instrument), it would effect the instrument much more to replace the barrel than the bell.
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Author: oca
Date: 2011-12-09 02:46
@kdk
I think you misunderstood me, and I'm sorry for being difficult to understand at times. I meant that the bore *diameter* should be the same in the sense that if you look down one end of the clarinet you should be able to see smoothly to the other side. I am well aware of the various mouthpiece cuttings.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2011-12-09 02:57
But the barrels are different, too. I wasn't talking about mouthpiece facings or internals at all. They don't make the reed harder, but the barrel's bore dimensions can noticeably affect the resistance to movement of air.
Karl
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Author: oca
Date: 2011-12-09 03:03
Bore dimensions as in length, diameter, thickness, or other?
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Author: DrewSorensenMusic
Date: 2011-12-09 03:23
Length=tuning (66mm=normal length, 65mm=higher pitch, 64mm=even higher pitch)
Diameter=inside bore shape (inverted cone as per Clark Fobes)
Thickness=I would assume has an effect on timbre, but that's more something a manufacturer would know
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2011-12-09 04:27
Clearly, the barrel is a key part of the instrument. The entire "playing" portion of the clarinet is below the barrel. When a pulse is formed by the reed, it is transmitted and shaped by the barrel on its way into the clarinet. When the reflected wave returns to interact with the reed (as part of synchronizing the reed with the air column), the rising wave is also transmitted and shaped by the barrel.
The barrel is second only to the mouthpiece and reed in determining how the clarinet reacts.
The bell is more mysterious. It obviously influences the "long" fingerings, but several of my colleagues claim that their aftermarket bells improve the entire range of their instruments.
Try taking the bell completely off and play around. Does its absence affect every note you can play?
My Bb is a Buffet RC, and my A is a Ridenour Lyrique. The RC has that mystical internal bulge in its bell. If I put the Lyrique hard rubber bell on my RC it messes things up quite a bit. But one thing that it really helps with is the tone quality of the long B (3rd line). In many passages, I need to open the throat A or G# key to clean up the sound. With the rubber barrel, I don't need to do that.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2011-12-09 14:14
Didn't read all the responses yet BUT.......
Take your bell and put a big crack in it.
Now trying playing and see if that made any difference to more than just two notes.
..................Paul Aviles
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Author: C.Elizabeth07
Date: 2011-12-09 23:21
My A is a greenline and I absolutely love it. Its an amazing instrument and I've found that more and more professionals are turning to greenline horns as well.
I had (before it was stolen) 2 Orsi & Weir (now Taplin-Weir) barrels. I found they made such a huge difference in my throat tones and it created an over all much more homogeneous/rich sound.
I've never experimented much with bells.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2011-12-09 23:34
One more bell post:
I find that the bell affects the resonance of the entire horn. It could not have been more obvious to me when a bell of mine developed the crack to which I alluded above. Suddenly the entire horn sounded tinny and was much less capable of the loud end of the dynamics.
I read on this board some time ago of the bass clarinetists who were gaga over the wooden bells by Backun. They too insist that the difference is much more than the last few notes.
We all tend to be a bit more barrel oriented. I do agree that most bells are closer to each other in final results than the barrels but the absence of a bell or the use of a defective one makes a really BIG difference.
...................Paul Aviles
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2011-12-10 02:02
Sean. Perrin,
Sorry, I was responding to the original post and one of the answers that made it sound as if one could play everything but Low E; Low F and the corresponding 12ths without a noticeable difference. I'm sure YOU wouldn't say that.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: oca
Date: 2011-12-10 02:05
I have to choose between a Backun (specifically a ringless), a Ridenour, and a Forbes.
Has anyone tried these three or can compare two of them?
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Author: Sean.Perrin
Date: 2011-12-10 02:25
DELETED
Ask me for my personal opinion via email if you are interested. I no longer wish to post it here.
Paul,
I guess I misunderstood. Thanks for clearing that up!
Founder and host of the Clarineat Podcast: http://www.clarineat.com
Post Edited (2011-12-12 00:19)
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Author: Morrie Backun
Date: 2011-12-10 06:24
Hello Sean,
Please contact me "off list"
Thanks
Morrie Backun
morrie@backunmusical.com
Morrie Backun
Backun Musical Services
604-205-5770
morrie@backunmusical.com
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