 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: much2bored
Date: 2011-11-26 02:28
I own a buffet r13 clarinet with a vandoren m13 mouthpiece. I'm currently using some generic metal ligature in desperate need of an upgrade. I know stuff like this is really about personal preference, but with such a wide variety of products, I don't know where to start. Any suggestions for a ligature(s) I should try?
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2011-11-26 02:40
Lots of answers here. Beware that this is a picky subject, perhaps worse then picking out a mouthpiece.
I have a Bonade and gutted a lot of it, reducing the weight. I think that most of us agree that the ligature vibrates along with the reed and the mouthpiece. Mine doesn't look anything like a Bonade now. Looks like something found in the 1800's.
Lots of people like rubber and assorted synthetic ligatures for lots of excellent reasons related to the sound of different registers to playing different notes in tune as well as comfort.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2011-11-26 02:45)
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Author: cxgreen48
Date: 2011-11-26 02:47
Maybe start with a simple Rovner and work your way from there? Somehow I doubt that the ligature you buy will be the last one you will ever buy.
I've tried many ligatures such as the inverted Bonade (with and without cut-out), Rovner Dark, Rovner Versa, BG Revelation, Vandoren Masters, Vandoren Optimum, Gigliotti, string, Rico H, Luyben... all were at least useable and better than the stock ligature.
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Author: Carmelo
Date: 2011-11-26 12:45
The Rovner light works for me. It hold the reed firmly in place and allows to vibrate enough without dampening the sound as much.
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Author: Joseph Tomasso
Date: 2011-11-26 13:27
I use a vandoren optimum on all of my saxophones and all of my clarinets right now. I like that I can switch up the plates, which can be helpful in different settings.
I have most of my students play on a bonade as their first upgraded ligature. I still have mine from many years ago, and it makes a fine backup ligature.
Bachelor of Music, Sax/Clarinet Performance (2005, 06)
Master of Music, Multiple Woodwind Performance (2008)
Master of Music, Oboe Performance (2013)
Gainesville Chamber Orchestra (Clarinet)
University of Florida 2010-2011(Visiting Lecturer in Woodwi
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Author: DougR
Date: 2011-11-26 14:50
I've had a slightly different experience recently regarding ligatures. I've experimented, dabbled, tried this and that, and gone through several phases where I outfitted all my horns with a particular ligature: Charles Bay, then BG, then the Optimum. Recently in the middle of a lesson, my teacher suggested the Optimum might not be the best fit with my particular mouthpiece (a Borbeck). I happened to have my old high-school ligature on my backup mouthpiece, and slapped that on. Suddenly my sound was brighter, less muffled, with more ring and liveliness.
Since then I've been alternating among my HS ligature (which is very very thin and starting to tear by the lower screw housing), the silver-plated Buffet lig. that came with my R-13, and a Bay, and they all sound better to my ears than the Optimum.
I suppose the lesson here (to myself anyway) is, there's no substitute for what your ears tell you! And, I suppose, some mouthpieces are better with the Optimum, and some aren't. (I'm not singling out the Optimum, just using it as shorthand for "whatever fancyschmancy ligature you're currently using that you've stopped listening to critically, to see if it actually works."
Gee, I could have omitted everything in this post and substituted the favorite acronym around here, "YMMV"!!
I for one would be interested to hear what your experience is as you try out different ligatures. Good luck & happy listening!
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Author: Joseph Tomasso
Date: 2011-11-26 15:18
Make sure you read what DougR said... its fantastic advice! I love my optimum, but i'd be the first to set it aside if something that worked better for me came around. try try try, and then buy.
For what its worth, I used a Bay gold ligature on alto saxophone for 3 months. I loved it. And then someone stepped on it.
*sigh*
DougR wrote:
> I've had a slightly different experience recently regarding
> ligatures. I've experimented, dabbled, tried this and that, and
> gone through several phases where I outfitted all my horns with
> a particular ligature: Charles Bay, then BG, then the Optimum.
> Recently in the middle of a lesson, my teacher suggested the
> Optimum might not be the best fit with my particular mouthpiece
> (a Borbeck). I happened to have my old high-school ligature on
> my backup mouthpiece, and slapped that on. Suddenly my sound
> was brighter, less muffled, with more ring and liveliness.
>
> Since then I've been alternating among my HS ligature (which is
> very very thin and starting to tear by the lower screw
> housing), the silver-plated Buffet lig. that came with my R-13,
> and a Bay, and they all sound better to my ears than the
> Optimum.
>
> I suppose the lesson here (to myself anyway) is, there's no
> substitute for what your ears tell you! And, I suppose, some
> mouthpieces are better with the Optimum, and some aren't. (I'm
> not singling out the Optimum, just using it as shorthand for
> "whatever fancyschmancy ligature you're currently using that
> you've stopped listening to critically, to see if it actually
> works."
>
> Gee, I could have omitted everything in this post and
> substituted the favorite acronym around here, "YMMV"!!
>
> I for one would be interested to hear what your experience is
> as you try out different ligatures. Good luck & happy
> listening!
Bachelor of Music, Sax/Clarinet Performance (2005, 06)
Master of Music, Multiple Woodwind Performance (2008)
Master of Music, Oboe Performance (2013)
Gainesville Chamber Orchestra (Clarinet)
University of Florida 2010-2011(Visiting Lecturer in Woodwi
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2011-11-26 17:39
I've had good luck with an ordinary Rovner. It was so different from the Buffet lig I'd been using that I had to get a second one in order to compare mouthpieces.
I've been avoiding letting GAS tempt me into looking further.
It sounds good, it is easy to use, it doesn't mark the reed or mouthpiece, and it stays put
Bob Phillips
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2011-11-26 18:47
I like the Bonade Inverted, but it doesn't fit on all the mouthpieces I use.
With my accumulation of old clarinets I have about 10 ordinary 2-screw metal ligatures and a bunch of junker mouthpieces of different diameters and table styles. I've had great success using the different mouthpieces as mandrels to reshape old metal ligatures in various ways and, actually, many of them now play quite well. My favorite among them is a Boosey & Hawkes lig which leaves much of the reed's side edges exposed. I use it on mouthpieces on which the Bonade is too large.
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Author: much2bored
Date: 2011-11-27 03:59
Thanks for the suggestions
Where I live, there isn't much variety unless you order online. All we really have here are a couple vandoren, a few rovner, and I think bonade, but I only know one person who uses one, and she doesn't really care about her sound, or playing in general.
I've tried the rovner light, and it was an improvment, but I didn't like it. When I play, I get this buzzing noise. It's not a part of the tone or anything, it's just a noise. After experimenting, I found the problem to be my ligature. The rovner light got rid of most of the buzzing, but not all of it. However, on the school's buffet b12 with my generic mouthpiece (what I use for marching band), there's no buzzing problem, although I have articulation and a few intonation problems with the ligature. Perhaps I'm looking for something to help dampen the vibrations for concert, and also something that I can really blow with for marching. Ideally, I'd like 2 separate ligatures for these purposes.
I'm really looking forward to trying out new ligatures, but I'm concerned about reeds. Normally, I play on vandoren traditional 4's, but I ran out, so I'm using traditional 3.5's that I had leftover. I could buy reeds when I go try ligatures, but I'm skeptical about using a new reed for that. Will the reed make a big difference with the ligatures?
Post Edited (2011-11-27 04:17)
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Author: cxgreen48
Date: 2011-11-27 14:08
As long as you have your old ligature on you while you're trying out other ligatures, you should try different ligatures on the same mouthpiece and reed and see what differences each one can make.
I personally believe that the better your reeds are, the less effect a ligature will have on your sound. When I first tried other ligatures (namely the Bonade inverted and Rovner Dark), they made my sound a lot less airy sounding, but now I figure this is because my stock ligature did not seal the reed well to the mouthpiece table (and possibly even caused warpage problems?).
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Author: bethmhil
Date: 2011-11-27 16:40
I've tried everything from the FL Ultimate ligature all the way to tying the reed onto the mouthpiece with twine. I prefer my Rovner Eddie Daniels (the Versa now?). I have found that it makes my tone dark, but doesn't take away color by cutting down on the upper harmonics of my tone. But, this is with my own setup (Gennusa mouthpiece, Tosca) and very well may not work as well with everyone else's setup.
I believe that a ligature should promote consistency of tone. From day to day, everything is different when you play your instrument... the reed, "feeling" of the instrument, embouchure, etc. After playing on a soft or hard reed for a while, your voicing, tightness of embouchure, amount of pressure pushing into the reed with your bottom jaw, etc. will adjust naturally. You can imagine then that there are a heck of a lot of things you have to adjust to every day. If a ligature is adding yet another aspect for you to have to adjust to (unnatural brightness = not pushing as much with lower jaw, unnatural "deadness" = pushing a lot with lower jaw), playing can be that much more frustrating. I believe that the response and immediate tone of the ligature is what you should base your decision off of. If the tone is suddenly more bright and brittle than you are used to when you try a new ligature, try something different. In short, buy the ligature that gives you what you want immediately without forcing yourself to adjust to it.
BMH
Illinois State University, BME and BM Performance
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Author: kilo
Date: 2011-11-27 16:41
Check out the Robert Vinson Equa-Tone — works well on my Grabner and costs less than twenty dollars. Single screw and slightly flexible, once it conforms to your mouthpiece and reed profile you can just slide it on and off. I agree with putting the emphasis on reeds. A stock ligature on a flat mouthpiece table will probably work better than a premium ligature used on an unbalanced or uneven table — easier to set up and easier to play. If you're currently getting a good seal with your 'generic metal ligature' your mouthpiece table is probably fine.
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Author: clarinetcase
Date: 2011-11-27 17:08
FWIW I love my Eddie Daniels ligature, but recently have been experimenting with a Bois. I find it gives me good projection.
(Music degree but working in another field; playing regularly.)
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Author: mankan
Date: 2011-11-27 19:06
Shoestring!! Give it a try.
I've played different ligatures, Optimum, Bonade, leather - but after reading David Pinos "The Clarinet and clarinet playing" I decided to try shoestring. It's a bit tricky to learn how to wind and tie it, but it's worth the effort. I'm not much of an expert but metal ligatures or anything that by pressure makes marks on, or defect the fibres of the reed, gives negative effects on how the reed responds. Cant explain it better, but shoestring is the ultimate choice for me
mankan
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Author: Ryan25
Date: 2011-11-27 21:07
I bought a peter sprigs floating rail ligature about 4 years ago and have not found anything that works better for me. I have also had good success with BG revelation, vandoren klassic string ligature, gold bonade inverted or regular.
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Author: Tony M
Date: 2011-11-28 07:17
Kilo,
Is the Robert Vinson Equa-Tone significantly different from the Vandoren M/O? I like the M/O. It works well for me.
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Author: kilo
Date: 2011-11-28 08:33
I've never seen or used an M/O but from the website it looks like it would be easy to install and adjust. The Equa-Tone, being plastic, is less likely to scratch, I suppose, but I 'll bet any difference in performance is minimal.
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Author: donald
Date: 2011-11-28 09:23
I know a prominant mouthpiece maker, and excellent symphony principal, who uses the Equa-Tone for all his reed adjustment and mouthpiece testing... i don't know if he also uses it for performance.
I have actually found the Luyben plastic ligature to be pretty good- not the best ever, but there's nothing wrong with it (some say the thread wears out, i've never had this problem but i'm sure it happens). Which is the best ligature? Well that seems to change every time i try them out. There are definitely "bad ligatures", but as for "the best", that seems to be ever changing. For this reason i am happy using the Luyben, it does the job.
dn
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Author: Maria P
Date: 2011-11-29 01:22
I use a Selmer C85 120 mouthpiece - but last week my (basic) ligature broke. I haven't really got into the habit of buying spares yet (only been playing again for about 3 months).
I've trawled around to get a decent ligature for practice this week (and my clarinet ensemble), and just ordered a Rovner MkIII after reading good things around the internet. I'll let you know what I think of it when it arrives (but will definitely be better than my last 'basic' one lol) - but has anyone used one of these? Any opinions???
Maria
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Author: fuzzystradjazz
Date: 2011-11-30 03:41
I used to use Harrison ligatures...they were great, but would eventually break right at the edge of the letter "H" (you can still find some of the old silver Harrisons on e-bay for $50). Somewhere along the way, they quit making the ligatures, and I bought a cheap knock-off.
I didn't like the sound and tried a million different ligatures. The one I ended up using was the cheap knockoff - but put on backwards. I've used it for the past fifteen years or so now, and still love it. My only thought is - don't buy into the hype - just use what gives you the sound you are looking for...I'd start by going through a box of old junky ones - you might be surprised.
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