 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2011-11-11 20:19
As mentioned in a previous post - I recently got my first young clarinet student. I just went through (and listened to the CD that goes with the method book) book 1 - and no where does it talk about tonguing. The book goes up to beginning 16th notes. the last time I saw the student I was teaching her "Tah" - am i supposed to wait?
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Author: pewd
Date: 2011-11-11 21:04
I usually introduce it after 4-6 weeks, depending on their progress.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2011-11-11 21:17
Tonguing is basic. Don't wait.
Without the clarinet, have her put the tip of her tongue between her lightly pursed lips, blow and then withdraw the tongue tip. Tell her to imagine she has a tiny feather on the tip of her tongue, which she spits/blows gently off.
Then have her do it on open G, holding the clarinet steady by putting down some right hand fingers.
There should be no visible movement. Watch for any jaw movement or movement of the lips, cheeks, the flesh below the chin or in the neck. The vocal cords should stay open and relaxed. Have her touch the larynx area (or take her finger and place it there lightly) to make sure it keeps still.
Send her home to practice in front of a mirror. Tell her to pretend she needs to hide it from other people, so they can't see anything happening.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-11-11 21:46
Rather than teaching a 'ta' which is a very hard attack, teach them to do a 'da' attack which is less explosive.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2011-11-11 22:10
I haven't taught beginners from scratch for several years, but I generally started getting them to articulate with the tongue during the 2nd or 3rd lesson.
Karl
Post Edited (2011-11-12 11:50)
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Author: Alexis
Date: 2011-11-11 22:22
I have always found it better to teach it at the same time as teaching slurring. But it always depends on the student. There is a temptation with beginners to overload them with information, particularly if they have a lesson on their own with you. Best to keep things simple, and don't let them develop complexes!
If tah or dah works, great. If not, leave it, and keep trying gently. Eventually it will click.
One idea a teacher of mine had was to whisper the word 'too' on to the reed. You gradually make the whisper louder until the sound comes out.
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Author: johng ★2017
Date: 2011-11-11 22:45
For me it depends upon the student. If they have the embouchure basics and are not struggling with playing a few notes, I start them right away with tonguing. Other students have all they can handle at that early stage so I wait until I think they are ready. But, the sooner the better since not tonguing is too hard a habit to break I have found. I have taken some kids who have had a year of band who have never tongued. They can get away with it at that point and it is difficult to convinced them of how necessary it is.
John Gibson, Founder of JB Linear Music, www.music4woodwinds.com
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Author: Claire Annette
Date: 2011-11-12 00:00
A fun way to teach tonguing is to give the student a stir straw (like you'd find in a fast-food restaurant to stir coffee) and have them start and stop the air they blow through it with the tongue. Do it with the student on your own stir straw and have fun with it.
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2011-11-12 05:03
When I saw the thread title, I immediately thought, "second lesson." If the student picks up general blowing/embouchure stuff quickly then first lesson. If a kid comes in to a first lesson with me after having a few band classes and is starting ever note with the air, then I tell them about it immediately.
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Author: CarlT
Date: 2011-11-12 13:23
Although my very first teacher told me about tonguing and even had me try it very early (second or third lesson?), I was told not to attempt tonguing, to any degree anyway, until I developed a much improved sound...the emphasis being much greater for good sound than for articulation at that point of my training.
CarlT
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2011-11-12 13:56
Using the Galper Clarinet Method, I do teach tonguing early on, but that is to start the note mostly. His method for quite a while has slurs, but having the tone start with the tongue does get them thinking of doing that, and associating the tongue with starting the tone.
Disclaimer: I distribute the Galper/Buffet Register Tube Extension which will be available again soon.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: kdk
Date: 2011-11-12 17:12
CarlT wrote:
> ...I was told
> not to attempt tonguing, to any degree anyway, until I
> developed a much improved sound...the emphasis being much
> greater for good sound than for articulation at that point of
> my training.
>
Carl, I don't know exactly what your teacher said or why he said it. FWIW, I personally don't believe a beginning student *can* develop a good sound without learning how to begin a note musically. The "attack" part of the sound envelope is an important component. As long as the student isn't slurring everything not ended by a rest, I think he/she just develops bad habits and a resistance to correct articulation if left to start notes by using a "hoo-hoo-hoo" approach (or for that matter by slurring everything). And I haven't known many beginning students, young or otherwise, who had the patience to stay exclusively with true long tones beyond a lesson or two. Everyone wants to play melodies reasonably soon after they produce their first tones.
Of course, articulation assumes there is a tone to articulate, and beginning students who don't produce a reasonably steady, clear sound, however rough, aren't going to be able to "tongue" cleanly. But then that kind of difficulty producing a basic sound is not a typical one for young students - usually they produce a sound from the beginning that, coarse or unrefined as it may be, is usable. It's adults, whose learned anxieties lead them to try to do everything "right" from the beginning, who are more likely to spend their first lessons just trying to get the reed to speak.
Karl
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Author: CarlT
Date: 2011-11-12 19:52
Karl, you're right I'm sure.
Probably the reason my teacher told me to stay away from tonguing for a while was because I sounded so awful back then. I like to think I improved a lot since those early days.
If I'd had a good sound then, I probably would've been told to practice tonguing more. I have some early recordings of my sound, and compared to now (3-1/2 years later), it was awful. I think I probably spent 3 or 4 more lessons just slurring before I was "permitted" to start tonguing again. This may not have been the proper teaching method, but I think it turned out for me okay. After a few more months, I remember my teacher even complimenting me for my tonguing.
I have since struggled some with tonguing, but it is steadily improving with practice.
CarlT
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2011-11-12 19:55
Many method books start beginners with whole notes for a page or so, followed by half notes, and then quarter notes. There are some newer books that begin with quarter notes and introduce longer notes later. I favor the first approach.
The first priority is to get the student comfortable with the instrument. It's important to be able to play basic notes like E, F, and G, and to be able to go back and forth between these notes with a good basic embouchure and a good hand position. I'm convinced that the ability to hold out whole notes and play basic selections containing only whole notes is a necessary first step. When the student has mastered this--usually one, two,or three lessons--half notes can be introduced. Once the student has mastered basic half note and whole note selections, tonguing can be introduced along with the introduction of quarter notes. If the student takes to the clarinet easily, this could take place during the second lesson, but I've found that it takes most students a bit longer.
Claire Annette mentioned using a straw, and I've also found that this is helpful for many students. Katrina mentioned students who have already had some lessons in school, but have not yet learned how to tongue. Like Katrina, I try to get these students to start tonguing immediately. For some reason, many band teachers don't spend much time on it. One of the hardest things for a private teacher is to teach tonguing to someone who has been playing for a year or two and has never done it (as Johng mentioned). These students are often convinced that their playing is fine, and they can't understand why they now have to use the tongue.
Post Edited (2011-11-12 20:04)
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2011-11-13 00:28
Today was my students second lesson (with me)
she seems to be picking it up pretty easily. needs some reminding to tongue, but can do it successfully when she does.
Shes so excited about learning and makes me excited about teaching. I love it.
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Author: Buster
Date: 2011-11-13 02:35
to follow up what David and Karl wrote:
As Karl stated:
It is quite important that an early student have the ability to reasonably sustain a given tone, even if not the "ideal" tone-quality, to even begin incorporating articulation. (And avoiding the "hoo-hoo-hoo" method is quite important. ...I don't negate its' importance, yet it is far easier to later learn than it is to un-learn.)
New concepts do come much more easily to young beginners; they seem to simply believe and follow what is offered, rather than question the "why" of everything. As counter-intuitive as it sounds, "adult acquired" intelligence can often get in the way.
(I would think that early is better, but a blanket statement of "first" or "second" lesson is not applicable for all. And certainly, beginners tire quite quickly of stupid long tones/whole notes, which is why I immediately burn every copy of the Rubank Method that I see.)
David,
I am not familiar with Galper's Method, but it sounds as it consists of starting a series of slurred notes by releasing the sound with the withdrawal of the tongue- with air behind it. This is obviously a skill to be learned.
From there I'd think it would then be simple to incorporate additional/ensuing articulation. The next articulated note is simply a simultaneous ending of the previous and release of the next- obviously maintaining the air consistently without a silence. (Sounds much more complicated in writing than it is to elicit in person.) From that base, it is far easier to begin showing the myriad of variations that can be used.
-I should say I have not taught any true beginners in a few years, but these seemingly "re-medial" techniques can also be used to help a more advanced student with articulation struggles. Sometimes, a simple change in their point of view (simultaneous end/release for instance) can turn on a light-bulb. Then, you can get on to more important matters; like how to actually turn this mechanical act into something that serves a piece of music.
-Jason
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Author: Claire Annette
Date: 2011-11-14 04:40
Worse than"hoo-hoo" is the gutteral "uhn-uhn" when the throat is working to interrupt the flow of air. It can be very difficult to break a student of this, if the habit has become ingrained. For that reason alone, my vote would be for teaching tonguing from the beginning.
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Author: epssax
Date: 2011-11-29 01:48
Some good suggestions and thinking going on here. I must have started 1000 clarinets in 35 years of teaching. I told the students to put their tongue on the tip of the reed and blow. Well, you guessed it. Some kids would make sounds in every beginner class and I would say "if you leave your tongue on the reed can it vibrate?" they would all agree that it wouldn't. So that let them know that when they RELEASED the tongue that the air would start the tone. Then I would illustrate by putting my finger against my hand and say "this is your tongue on the reed. When I pull my finger away from my hand, you pull your tongue away from the tip of the reed." Before long we would be playing repeated quarter notes. Usually used 'tah'. Later on could use "tut" to show that when they put their tongue back on to form the syllable 'tut' that the air would stop. They learned that the tongue was like a valve and that using different syllables would produce short, long, and other styles of notes.
Been playing clarinet 53 years. Studied with Jim Elliott and James Livingston in Louisville. Been a professional musician 51 years. Play a Buffet R-13. Also play a Buffet tenor sax, Martin Baritone sax, Jupiter also sax. www.thecountryclarinet.com
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Author: Sean.Perrin
Date: 2011-11-30 14:59
This is really smart. I find it's always best to externalize the actions happening within the body, because they can't be seen or understood otherwise! This is a great way to explain tonguing, I'm going to try it out on my next beginner student!
Founder and host of the Clarineat Podcast: http://www.clarineat.com
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