 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Maria P
Date: 2011-11-07 02:06
I recently tried a Grand Concert Thick Cut reed for my Bb clarinet (which came with another clarinet) in strength 3 - and found it to be fantastic with my new mouthpiece (Selmer C85 120).
I've been looking around (always looking for a bargain lol) and at the moment I've found a store selling their stock off but unfortunately they don't have these reeds in stock. They do, however, have Grand Concert Evolution (both in strength 2.5 and 3).
I've looked at the reed comparison chart on the web - but the thick cut 3 seem to be a little softer than the evolution.
Could anyone with experience of both advise which strength evolution would be comparable with the thick cut 3's?
Thanks.
Maria
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2011-11-07 23:45
Careful, they play much differently, just because you like one cut doesn't mean you will like the other. Buy one box and try them, if you like them you will know what strength to buy. If you don't like them you will save a lot of money. ESP
eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: 2E
Date: 2011-11-09 06:55
I'm waiting for Bob Bernardo to chime in here :p
I agree the best way to see what you like is to try as many as possible.
I play them both, with Reserves and Classic Reserves too.
Think my favs are Evolution though
2E
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Author: Maria P
Date: 2011-11-11 18:18
Thanks for the comments/advice.
Well the evolution arrived - and I tried them.....but definitely found them different (but unfortunately not in a good way). They are definitely harder to play - as my notes sounded 'thick' and 'foggy' and not as clear as with the thick cut.
I've ordered a box of thick cut so I think I'll stick to them for now.
Maria
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Author: Maria P
Date: 2011-11-12 23:37
I've ordered strength 3 because that's what I tried in the first place and it seemed to work well with the mouthpiece (Selmer C85 120). The notes sound clearer without the background 'thickness'.
Maria
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2011-11-13 15:33
ZE - here I am!!!
I actually like (liked) the thicker blanks. They have a thicker heart; center and I found that hitting the high high double C and actually beyond, I could hit the F above the C, The main reason is the thicker blanks in most cases, have stronger fibers and more guts, because they came from the bottom of the tubes. Because of being from the bottom, the cane is naturally stronger. Also the musicians that worked there picked only the best cane, by pre-testing the quality of cane. The best cane was used for Mitchell Lurie, Fred Hemke, and the Grand Concert line. Interesting concept here is the 2 top musicians got the same batch of reeds to test, so it was a blindfold test. I'd say we rated the cane almost or the same or very close to 100 percent of the testing the same. We were good at this!
You sort of have to try the thin and thick reeds. If you find the reeds getting a bit soft, simply use a reed clipper and take off just a tiny bit. If you take off too much, don't throw out the reed. Sand the bottom with 600 dry wet sand paper. That black sand paper, not the brown stuff. While sanding you really don't need to hack at taking off the wood, start with just 5 to 10 even strokes, never touching the tip area, should bring the reed back to life. You may need to sand a bit more then 10 strokes.
The thick blanks are actually the same, or very close to the thickness of the alto sax cane. So if you play the sax, which actually requires putting more work on the reeds and those alto reeds also usually need adjustments after a short time or up to a week or so before adjusting them.
Part of the reason the reeds get soft is they are no longer being washed in the formation of split tubes. At one point all of the split tubes were washed at 180 degrees with sodium bircabionate (spelling?) which are fancy words for baking soda. The hot water and the baking soda would settle down the reeds, stable the reeds so the player wouldn't have to do too much to the reeds. This process would also kill any bugs. The tubes were soaked for around 10 minutes. Anyway, if you bought a box of Mitchell Lurie reeds they were pretty consistant. Since Rico did away from soaking the reeds the GC reeds and their later reeds were never treated so the reeds usually get soft fairly quickly when put in water.
I play with a double lip almost all of the time and a fairly heavy Grand Concert thick reed, usually a 4 1/2, dry reed. After I dipped the reeds in water they went from a 4 1/2 dry, down to about a 3 1/2 or even as low as a 2 1/2, when wet.This totally depends on the cane quality; excellent to poor, and the age of the cane. Most of the time if you are willing to try what I did you should be able to get around 4 or 5 reeds to play out of a box.
Just a reminder, I play Vandorens now, but I treat the VD's somewhat the same. Vandorens usually are more stable then the GC's. I may write to Bernard Vandoren and ask if he soaks the cane or what he does to stablize his reeds. He knows me, but I'm not sure if he'll lend out any secrets.
I would suggest that us fellow musicians buy a box about 1 strength higher. Play the reeds lightly the first day, perhaps 20 minutes or so and see what happens to the reeds the next day. Make a few adjustments such as sanding the bottom of the reeds to flatten them. They will 100 percent be warped. Don't take off too much. With luck and some minor touch-up's you should have a few decent reeds. Do this with both the thin and thick reeds. Of course your mouthpiece can make a huge difference. Thick walled rails will most likely play great on the thin reeds and the thick reeds will drive you nuts trying to get a reed to vibrate.
With most Vandoren mouthpieces the rails tend to be in the middle, not thick nor thin.
If the reeds are still too stiff take the reed and place it on the mouthpiece the way you would normally do. About 1/2" or so from the tip, where the spine of the reed gets thicker take your thumb and slightly push down on the reed when wet. A dry reed will split of course. This will stretch the fibers. This doesn't break the fibers. It's sort of waking up in the morning and you may be a bit stiff, so you do some mild stretching. Think of the reed fibers and your muscle fibers sort of working the same.
Sadly Rico stopped doing the the water treatment.
I usually soak reeds for 3 to 5 minutes before playing them.
I was just thinking as I'm writing, perhaps some people on this board may want to try heating up water and add a tiny bit of baking soda a 1/2 teaspoon to the cup of water. I don't think I would go to 180 degress. Perhaps around 120 for 10 minutes or until the water get cool. Then let the reeds dry overnight.
If anyone does this experiment kindly post your observations. - bad, good, or no difference. I'll try this with the Vandoren reeds and report in a few weeks letting everyone know the test results. Lets see if we get more reeds per box to play. As always anyone can email me with questions or comments.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2011-11-14 02:00)
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