 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: much2bored
Date: 2011-11-06 21:22
Yesterday, my school (along with another school here) hosted a marching band festival, and one of the bands had a clarinet soloist that was able to project over the entire band, without a microphone or any other assistance, while maintaining a very nice tone. Granted, it was a small band, but that's still quite a feat in my opinion. My band director can project over our entire marching band as well.
I guess what I'm wondering is: How can I get myself, and my peers to play out like that? I'm told that I play the loudest out of my section. But, I can only go so far, and I know that issue is the same for them. It's not that we're afraid to play out, we just can't.
How can we push our limits to increase our dynamic range?
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2011-11-06 21:42
I'd say it's a two step process.
Firstly, find the best point at which to place the mouthpiece in your mouth. Every mouthpiece has a specific point (just slightly toward the opening from the point where the reed comes into contact with the mouthpiece). You do this by playing an open throat G. While sounding the note begin taking in more and more mouthpiece until you get a great big SQUAWK. Just back off slightly, and this is your ideal spot on your mouthpiece for most effective sound production.
Secondly, you need to use air as effectively as you can. You do this by focusing your air column as much as possible (think of how you would blow on a hot cup of coffee to cool it down). With a strong, steady, concentrated column of air you should feel the clarinet vibrate beneath your fingers at ALL volumes.
The will be a limit to your dynamic (the sound will just choke off at some point) but you should be able to have achieve a more solid top end this way.
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: much2bored
Date: 2011-11-06 22:07
Thanks I'll give it a try. I've actually been trying that these past few days, but for the purpose of improving tone. I've had that vibration when I play for around a year, and I love how it feels haha
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Author: Elkwoman46
Date: 2011-11-06 22:47
Hi, much2bored, I am a returning player and actually at my beginning level now all over again, I understand things more than I ever did, BUT bearing my low level, though and keep that in mind, of clarinet training thus far, I believe probably the number one answer for volume is the...
the strength of the reed.
However, just slapping on a heavier reed, from what I gathered can have serious problems...
1. Not ready for it; too hard to play.
2. Based on your "level of instrument": beginner, intermediate, advanced, or professional...a stronger reed can cause you to be hopelessly out of tune, (too sharp or too flat) especially if your mouthpiece and barrel is geared for a different reed strength.
I can testify from what I have thus tested so far, a (I used a Mitchell Lurie, which obviously is a thinner reed at the tip) 3.0 reed strength on one of my intermediates puts me about 30 cents (I think that is how to read it) flat. Put a 1 1/2 on and I am at about 20 cents flat or less. However, with this lower reed on this one, I sound weak and very low volume in contrast.
The barrel is 65.5mm. The mouthpiece is a plastic high end beginner made for a beginner player. Point is...what a contrast in volume! Yet, I can tell this mouthpiece was probably not made for a 3.0 reed....probably??
(I just went and tried again, and it reads flatter than before...yet still the tuner acknowledges the correct note.)
On my other intermediate, also eBay find, I have been playing with a 1 1/2 reed on a Vandoren B45 and I am perfectly in tune (on the middle range notes that is from what I tested thus far), but the barrel is 63.5mm. Also, I should say I discovered as I test other notes on the tuner, I get in tune by producing with a bit more volume, if I just blow softly I am flat, bring up projection a bit and then I am in tune...that was also a learning lesson to me on the wonders of the reed.
Both of these barrels are originals to the clarinets, but as you can see, I may need to make some change on the first one I mentioned. Oh, and swapping the barrels did not work...too loose. But as my own reed strength needs go up, I am still trying to figure things out and see what happens as I get better too, of course.
Interestingly enough, I understand that most beginner and intermediate clarinet instruments are usually geared to be sharp, not flat, to help be in tune with others in the band easier, etc. I find this all a bit strange since I am having the opposite problem.
But I think that is likely one of the answers that I have heard thus far about volume/loud playing. I think I have even heard some people are choosing 5 reed strengths to accomplish volume (and hit higher notes).
I also can't help but believe that volume is also created by an individual, just like playing a flute (there are no reeds or barrels to change out)...some people can play it really loud while others cannot at all. This is real evidence of playing power by breath control.
Which also brings to mind, breath usage. Probably number two to consider. Is any of your breath being wasted by your breathing techniques and embouchure? You might want to go back to basics on this and study what you are doing very carefully, as I too will be doing as I go along. I absolutely hear it when I have a lot of air escaping, more and more as I get tired in any practice session.
I so look forward toward other people's comments on volume and performing loudly. Perhaps the thing to do, is really give it your all and practice that way, and if your clarinet intonation goes flat while you begin to use even fatter reeds, just go to shorter barrels to compensate!!!!!!!! GRIN GRIN...I have no idea if that is the answer, actually!!!!! Just kiddin'...too amateur to know, but just sharing my experiences thus far. Have a great day.
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Author: much2bored
Date: 2011-11-07 01:21
Normally, I play on a vandoren traditional 4, but i ran out, and i haven't been able to get any more, so i'm stuck using 3.5's from the same brand, same line. I had forgotten to take that into account. Is there any way I can get some reeds? I'm broke and don't have time to go to the store, I can't order online, and I'm constantly getting on my parents' backs about getting me some (and a new swab), but it's been months and still nothing. I have one last box of 3.5's, and I fear that at this point, going back to a 4 is going to be difficult.
Post Edited (2011-11-07 01:24)
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2011-11-07 01:55
Quote:
the strength of the reed. Very important. No reason to waste energy biting down your embouchure to make a reed play, or wasting breath getting that "airy" sound.Quote:
Which also brings to mind, breath usage. Probably number two to consider. Is any of your breath being wasted by your breathing techniques and embouchure? You might want to go back to basics on this and study what you are doing very carefully, as I too will be doing as I go along. I absolutely hear it when I have a lot of air escaping, more and more as I get tired in any practice session. This has a lot to do with what Paul said above about finding that right spot on the mouthpiece being effective. With the right size reed and right spot on the mouthpiece, you would need very little embouchure pressure to get the reed to sound. It could be virtually entirely dependant on air. This allows you to relax and not waste energy or air. My lip itself provides enough pressure for the reed to sound and my teeth placement and firm embouchure is relegated to making sure the mouthpiece doesn't fall out of my mouth, instead of providing pressure against the reed. I also create a "seal" around the mouthpiece with my lips. I make my lips more of an "O" instead of a tight "smile" and they just keep air from escaping and make sure all the air goes through the instrument. Finding that sweet spot on the reed also helps your embouchure last for a VERY long time since you're not squeezing the reed to get it to sound. The end result is you can play for hours, and your BRAIN will need a rest before your body quits on you.
TOUCHY SUBJECT COMING UP HERE...
I had a quick tuning class a few weeks ago where they talked about the lowering the third, raising the fifth, things like that in order to sound "in tune" with the rest of the band on a chord. But in this class, and it makes sense to me, it was stated that if you are playing a solo line, you have to play a little sharper than the rest of the band. It makes sense to me that if you're supposed to be the solo and therefore "exposed", playing a LITTLE sharper would make you "stick out" and be heard above the others. If you were playing in tune, you'd just blend in.
To the pros, is this true? I believe the numbers he gave were in cents, and he spoke about each note going up the scale (the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc.) being progressively and progressively sharper until the 7th (leading tone) was nearly 20 cents sharp! Like I said, the sharpness seems to make sense as you'll be heard separately from the backgrounds, but I'm curious as to how much this is actually applied in professional settings.
Alexi
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
Post Edited (2011-11-07 01:55)
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2011-11-07 13:31
much2bored -
You can approximately double your volume with the swab-up-the-bell exercise, which I've described many times.
Stuff a cotton swab up the bell, finger middle B (with the register key open), take plenty of mouthpiece, loosen your embouchure and blow like the wind. You'll get a weak 4th space Eb. Blow harder and harder until you get a decent volume.
Then find the Bb above. You do this by raising the back of your tongue and lowering the tip, lowering your jaw slightly and raising your soft palate. It's easier to do than to describe.
Then find the Eb, G and Bb and play bugle calls.
When you pull the swab out and play, you'll suddenly find that you're much, much louder than before. This comes from using less embouchure pressure and more air. By doing the exercise many times, you'll get the feel of opening up and letting go.
Ken Shaw
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2011-11-07 16:17
Ken Shaw wrote:
> much2bored -
>
> You can approximately double your volume with the
> swab-up-the-bell exercise, which I've described many times.
>
> Stuff a cotton swab up the bell, finger middle B (with the
> register key open), take plenty of mouthpiece, loosen your
> embouchure and blow like the wind. You'll get a weak 4th space
> Eb. Blow harder and harder until you get a decent volume.
>
> Then find the Bb above. You do this by raising the back of your
> tongue and lowering the tip, lowering your jaw slightly and
> raising your soft palate. It's easier to do than to describe.
>
> Then find the Eb, G and Bb and play bugle calls.
>
> When you pull the swab out and play, you'll suddenly find that
> you're much, much louder than before. This comes from using
> less embouchure pressure and more air. By doing the exercise
> many times, you'll get the feel of opening up and letting go.
>
> Ken Shaw
I think I've put this exercise off long enough. I've seen you list and list it and I haven't done it. I think I'd like to show up to my next band and be told, "Um....quiet down so we can hear the trumpets..."
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Eric V
Date: 2011-11-07 19:14
Ken, thanks for the swab in the bell technique. Just tried it out and it works great. Seems to work just as well as the "Breath Builder" gadget but more convenient and more fun too.
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Author: Elkwoman46
Date: 2011-11-07 22:04
Update: I am so surprised today...did some re-testing and some swapping of mouthpiece, and found a new situation...feeling that I was flat, I decided to test some other beginner notes and found that those were more in tune, while on the other clarinet other notes are of course in tune with the first beginner notes. I am sitting absolutely stumped as to why this varies so. Yet, I do see that perhaps for me, the right size reed is not in place yet, and my skill level...
I do recall many years ago when I had the teacher, a bit down the road my teacher was pulling out the barrel a little...and at the time I did not understand any of these things about a clarinet, however today I have no idea why, overall, I am running flat at this point...instead of sharp.
Thank you so much for the reply Alexi, I am reading with intent and learning a lot from you...thank you again.
Dear Ken...that is really too advanced for me right now, I can tell...grin...I am trying to follow along with CDs that came with book, and just making it to the last measure of each exercise is feeling awfully great right now....GRIN...yet, I am learning a lot from you too, and hope to remember that when I get to that point!!! (However, I discovered new loud sounds that I making...squeaks deep within the joint, feeling almost like I plugged it in electronically and walked in between a microphone and speaker. Ha ha)
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2011-11-07 22:59
It could too be just a mouthpiece that has had some baffle work done to it which allows him to play so loudly.
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Author: Bb R13 greenline
Date: 2011-11-10 02:40
the solo line playing sharp caught my attention, because in marching band we had this one sax player who always played really loud and everyone praised him for it but to me it sounded as if he was just playing10-20 cents sharp to everyone else and at a normaly loud volume. I always wondered if it was better to play loud and out of tune like that or to just blend. of course I mean in marching band, concert band would be a quite obvious answer
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Author: Buster
Date: 2011-11-10 03:31
Alexi wrote of playing sharper in a solo line as a means of projection.
I have heard some players who do this, and have worked with some as well. (consequently it seems to happen quite frequently in "amateur" groups)
It is not something that I use, or really advocate as a blanket method, for it opens the door for other problems to creep in.
-First: the idea of playing each scale degree progressively sharper, ending with the leading tone being 20 cents high. It may "feel" gratifying to sit above the group in this manner, but can sound discordant at times to a semi-keen audience member; or quite obvious, and poor, to one with a good ear. How it wouldn't bother your ear if you are the player I could not understand; but perhaps I'm weird.
Just one example: If you play the leading tone the prescribed 20 cents high in a solo line, while the rest o' the peons are playing the dominant in Just tuning (and I'd certainly hope they are), well it obviously won't fit as you'd be 34 cents apart. i.e. You're playing the third of the dominant, which is lowered 14 cents in Just tuning, 20 cents above "base level." Played in passing, to an uneducated ear, it may sound a bit strange; to a good ear it will be noted but perhaps over-looked and forgiven. Yet, if you sit on a high leading tone over the dominant, it would set my teeth on edge and I'd pray I had something to throw.
That is perhaps the most obvious tuning "disagreement" with "projecting" in this manner, but certainly is not the only case.
-Second: playing every note a hair sharper than the group. This also can feel quite gratifying to player, but is not what I would prescribe.
If the player is unable to project their tone in a differing manner, as an outside ear I would perhaps over-look this: they are not able to do anything else, but it would be noted. As a musician in the group, I would find it incredibly difficult if said player used that technique as a go to trick.
The problem that arises- the ensemble hears the player sitting a bit high and naturally migrates up to meet the soloist; or perhaps the now inadvertent "soloist" doesn't come back down to the lower pitch level and forces the others to climb and meet them. That can end up in a snowball situation where the clarinetists have bloody lips, and sharp reed knives at the ready to slash the offending flautist or string section as a whole.
Upon seeing that I have written far too much again: I guess you could summarize my thoughts by saying I would caution against using this as a go to technique.
-Jason
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