 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2011-10-21 21:04
Attachment: CT_key_wear.jpg (113k)
Here's a question for the techs out there:
I recently picked up another Selmer CT from an estate sale at a very good price and have been going over the instrument. It is in surprisingly good shape with no cracks and most of the keywork is in good shape as well. Unfortunately the one problem I do see is that there is heavy wear on the rod for the RH ring keys where the index finger passes over it (see attached photo).
So my question is can this wear be corrected relatively easily (filling with silver solder perhaps)? I am debating whether I should get this instrument just a basic overhaul or whether I should spend the additional money for a more extensive restoration.
Thanks.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2011-10-21 21:31
I'm not familiar with that horn but, IMO, what you see is probably normal, and not wear.
Bob Draznik
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2011-10-21 21:46
Attachment: CT_key_compare.jpg (140k)
It's definitely wear and pretty heavy wear at that. Check out this side by side comparison with my other Selmer CT that doesn't have key wear.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2011-10-21 21:50
Replating a single key would make it stick out visually. All the keys are lightly pitted, so you'd have to strip and plate everything. The price of silver has skyrocketed, following the bubble in gold.
The clarinet looks well used. If you don't have corrosive sweat that eats through the plating, and you can live with the way it is, I'd leave it alone.
For expert advice, go to the Yahoo Musical Instrument Technician board, http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/musical_instrument_technician/messages
Ken Shaw
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2011-10-21 22:07
Ken Shaw wrote:
> Replating a single key would make it stick out visually. All
> the keys are lightly pitted, so you'd have to strip and plate
> everything. The price of silver has skyrocketed, following the
> bubble in gold.
>
> The clarinet looks well used. If you don't have corrosive
> sweat that eats through the plating, and you can live with the
> way it is, I'd leave it alone.
>
> For expert advice, go to the Yahoo Musical Instrument
> Technician board,
> http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/musical_instrument_technician/messages
>
> Ken Shaw
I'm pretty sure these are unplated nickel silver keys. The tarnish on them is definitely not silver tarnish and I don't think Selmer was nickel plating their keys at this time although I could be wrong about that. You are probably right that they would probably all need to be plated after any repair was made on this key in order to match visually.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-10-21 23:10
The keys are unplated nickel silver on this one (as are most CTs), so you could have a nickel silver patch hard soldered onto the worn area of the key rod (which will have to be filed flat for a good fit) and filed/sanded/polished to blend in and bring it back to the original diameter. The ends of the patch will fit tight up against both the C/G pad cup arm and RH1 ring key arm so it won't be obvious. If you decide to have all the keys silver plated, then you can get away with filling in the worn area with silver solder and filing and papering it to make it all smooth and round again - the plating will hide this kind of repair.
But in all honesty there's still plenty of metal in the key barrels (which are solid in this application) for it not to create any problems, so you could leave it as is.
The keys have been polished before as there's still loads of rouge left on them which should have been cleaned off!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2011-10-21 23:14)
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2011-10-21 23:22
Chris P wrote:
> The keys have been polished before as there's still loads of
> rouge left on them which should have been cleaned off!
>
Yeah, I noticed that too. Lazy...
Thanks for your advice. I think I'll probably just clean up the keys as best I can and get a regular overhaul. It may not be the prettiest but should be a good player and that's really what matters. I'll be interested to see how it compares to my other CT. This one is an R-series while my other one is an early P-series.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-10-22 11:22
The earliest CT I've owned was an N-series which was bought by a fairly local player who fell in love with it immediately on trying it. I also had a P-series that had one owner from new so I knew all the history of it. It came in the original burgundy case and still had the original box of Vandoren reeds, ligature and cap but the HS* mouthpiece had been opened up as the former owner was a sax player. But he didn't have the barrel shortened. Unfortunately I sold that to one of the sax players in our band who passed on and I've no idea where this clarinet is now. Both those CTs were 17/6.
My first CT and what got me hooked on large bore Selmers was the P10xx A clarinet that came with the N-series Bb (a transitional model) which were both the same system (No.806 - forked Bb, artic. G# and LH Eb) which I've rebuilt several times since I got them back in 1988.
The most recent CTs I've got are an R-series full Boehm that's currently undergoing a complete rebuild and having the keywork and all other metal parts that can be removed silver plated and a P-series Bb (with artic. G# and forked Bb) which I've left unplated but otherwise rebuilt - both of which came with their original cases.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: William
Date: 2011-10-22 15:42
My hands are quite acidious (is that a word??) and my first nickel plated clarinets always showed a lot of wear--to the point of the Eb/Bb key actually falling off my first R13 which required resodering by a local tech. Now, all of my clarinets are silver plated (with one in gold) and none have shown any wear at all over the past 40 yrs. Silver and gold plating solves the wear and tear issues associated with nickel-silver and looks great, and feels great--at least to me.
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2011-10-22 22:47
William wrote:
> My hands are quite acidious (is that a word??) and my first
> nickel plated clarinets always showed a lot of wear--to the
> point of the Eb/Bb key actually falling off my first R13 which
> required resodering by a local tech. Now, all of my clarinets
> are silver plated (with one in gold) and none have shown any
> wear at all over the past 40 yrs. Silver and gold plating
> solves the wear and tear issues associated with nickel-silver
> and looks great, and feels great--at least to me.
Thankfully the sweat and oils on my hands don't seem to be particularly corrosive. The only clarinet I've even worn through the plating on was my Normandy 10 and this was only to the point where you could just see the copper base layer showing through on the throat G# key and on the barrel of the lower joint ring keys.
After some closer inspection it looks like someone annihilated the barrel on this key with a buffing wheel. Approximately 1/3rd of the barrel thickness is now gone.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-10-22 23:44
They've used several different alloys of nickel silver judging by the colour - the rings are made from a harder alloy which is more silver coloured compared to the solid key barrels which are softer and more yellow. The hollow C#/G# key barrel is also made from a harder alloy than the solid RH ring key barrel.
The 1954 CT I recently bought didn't need any of the hollow key barrels swaging as they were all an excellent fit between the pillars. The point screws all needed countersinking deeper into both the pillars and the ends of the solid key rods as the screw heads were all protruding a fair amount from the pillars. Even though it had seen a good amount of playing in its time, it still had around 90% of the original pads and key corks in place. The keys all had rouge on them that hadn't been cleaned off, but I think this was from the factory as I've worked on MkVI saxes of around the same era and they still had plenty of rouge in all the nooks and crannies. Then again, I've worked on very recent Selmer saxes which still have plenty of rouge still on them too.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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