 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: bradfordlloyd
Date: 2011-10-20 19:04
I just had a Bb/A set of vintage Penzel-Mueller Artist models completely overhauled. The Vintage Clarinet Doctor did an amazing job on both horns -- they are both beautiful and sound amazing overall with fantastic richness of tone and pretty decent intonation. There's just one issue -- the throat tones in the Bb are "fuzzy" and horribly sharp (>20 cents). Everything else plays like a dream.
Knowing that the tech is an expert, and that vintage horns are "mouthpiece finnicky", I suspect it's a mouthpiece and/or barrel issue. But I'm looking for some experienced advice on how I might approach remedying the issue.
Any thoughts?
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2011-10-20 19:14
I don't agree that vintage clarinets are generally more "mouthpiece finicky" than modern instruments.
The problem is most likely that the register vent tube is improperly sized and/or poorly located. But a quick fix you might try before messing with that tube, would be to replace the barrel with something like a Boosey & Hawkes barrel (from any of their models), which has a somewhat larger bore than that of the rest of your clarinet. Such a barrel will usually bring the throat tones down in pitch, along with the upper clarion notes (are they sharp in pitch as well?).
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Author: William
Date: 2011-10-20 19:30
Try "venting" the A & Bb. When playing these notes, I always add these fingers:
OXX/OOO lh B/E key
This helps with clarity & improves intonation.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2011-10-20 23:06
William is absolutely right, I didn't occur to me that you might not be using the so-called "resonance" fingering for the throat Bb, I'd say that should be pretty much standard procedure on any soprano clarinet (it may seem awkward for a while but eventually you'll do it automatically).
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2011-10-20 23:22
Interesting. I own several P-M clarinets and haven't run into this issue. Typically they are pretty good in the throat range (+/- ~5 cents or less) and only have intonation issues in the lower chalameau where they tend to be flat (usually by 10+ cents unless a vent hole is drilled in the bell).
Trying the resonance fingering is good advice but I don't think it will drop your pitch by a full 20 cents. Probably more like 5.
I wouldn't consider most clarinets to be particularly mouthpiece sensitive. I have a P-M Clari-Met that is nearly 100 years old and I play it using a modern mouthpiece with no problems.
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Author: bradfordlloyd
Date: 2011-10-21 03:14
Great advice and insight, thanks. The wider bore barrel helps (I used the widest bore I have handy), as has experimenting with some alternate mouthpieces. The notes are still pretty out of tune and definitely thinner and less resonant than the rest of the horn (which is really, nice....making this situation all the more frustrating).
I'm going to play with the resonance fingering and do the old standby of low tones and arpeggios to see what I can accomplish (if it's not the horn, it's probably me). Still, the A doesn't have these issues....
Thanks again for the terrific advice.
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Author: donald
Date: 2011-10-21 08:42
Les Nicholas can take measurements of the bore of your mouthpiece and clarinet (well, actually he sends you the stuff and YOU make the measurements) and then he will make a barrel that is acoustically matched to your instrument to optimise intonation. He did this for me in 2010 and i have been very happy with results.
dn
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Author: bradfordlloyd
Date: 2011-10-22 23:27
Just a quick note...spent serious time with the P-Ms, several different barrels and several different mouthpieces this afternoon. I genuinely learned a lot. Specifically:
1. The P-Ms are awesome. Great tone across the horns with the right barrel/mouthpiece combination. They really don't seem like my Van Doren mouthpieces...but when I used a Fobes and Stowell Wells Schneider they worked great!
2. I need to get used to P-M ergonomics...some of the issues were my inadvertantly pressing keys that was wrecking the tone/intonation in the throattones. By experimenting with the resonance fingering (great tip -- thanks!) I discovered this
3. As these are back-up horns for me, I compared them to my R-13. I re-discovered that my throat tones are super sharp on my R-13! So, many of the intonation problems are MINE! Back to long tones, arpeggios, and afternoons with a tuner...
4. With some custom barrels, I can help compensate for some of my own shortcomings and make them a bit easier to play for me in tune
In short, I have met the enemy, and it's (mostly) me. A really good lesson for me today in not making assumptions, and not blaming the horn when the problems are mine. Thanks again to all who contributed their excellent suggestions and experience.
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