 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Trevor M
Date: 2011-10-18 20:55
Hi folks,
I am pretty unimpressed with the new French E11 Bbs. I have seen quite a few of them at work- the wood feels light and almost rough to the touch, and certain things just bug me, i.e. why doesn't the bell have a ring?
Having said that, I'm in the market for a decent C clarinet but I can't justify the Prestige or Patricola price tag- are the E11 C and Eb models the same as the new E11 specs? It freaks me out that the Buffet website ( http://www.buffet-crampon.com/en/instruments.php?mode=productDetails&pid=719 ) markets these as having 'been designed for very young players with their comfort in mind.' That seems ridiculous- very young players would probably benefit from a sturdy plastic horn, maybe one with a plateau system as an option. I sure don't have these very young players or their comfort in mind when I do Strauss or Mahler or want to sight-read some choro with friends. Does anybody have any experience with these horns? Is the new French E11 production still working out the kinks- should I wait a year?
Thanks, Trevor
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2011-10-19 03:56
Trevor, why not talk to Tom Ridenour about a Lyrique in C? It might offer you what you are looking for at a very reasonable price.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
Post Edited (2011-10-19 03:56)
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Author: Franklin Liao
Date: 2011-10-19 09:37
I am no expert, but here's my two cents.
My personal experience has been that the C instruments don't conduct this ringing sound without some work done by the user to get used to the given horn, and even so they are less resonant than their larger Bb counterpart.
The 2011 E11 C was not particularly striking to me personally. The RC Prestige in C that I have sampled yields an experience that was more rewarding, but RC Prestige is several times the expense of the E11 (granted, this is anecdotal)
Lyrique in C and the Amati C clarinets are the most affordable choices at the moment. Intonation with the Amati that I've sampled was inferior to the Lyrique, although the construction of the instrument would favor Amati instead.
Be warned: C and Bb models of the same line are very different animals, with a price premium and less consistency in intonation than their Bb equivalent.
Post Edited (2011-10-19 09:42)
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Author: Trevor M
Date: 2011-10-19 19:23
Thanks JJ, but I'm a little wary of the new Ridenour horns, at least until I see some more of them in action. (The pair I've gotten my hands on still felt like Chinese plastic clarinets, although definitely way above of the league of the Skye and Gold Star and garbage like that.)
You sound like you've tried a lot of the modern C horns, Franklin- would you say, based on your experiences, that the E11 C is considerably worse than a Bb in the same line? All the older C clarinets I've played had some pretty severe intonation issues, have the new Buffets solved any of those problems?
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Author: Hurstfarm
Date: 2011-10-19 22:22
I faced exactly the same predicament, and rejected the E11. I couldn't justify a Prestige (although I tried one anyway!) agonised over the Patricola, and ended up with an Amati 354S at a third of the price - partly as an experiment. With a good mouthpiece, the better of the 2 Amati instruments I tested was virtually indistinguishable in tone colour from the Patricola. I preferred it to the E11. Intonation was pretty much comparable to the Patricola across the range, apart from some wayward tuning using standard fingerings from altissimo F upwards - although as I routinely use different fingerings for different instruments up there, I don't regard this as too much of a handicap.
Although the body of the clarinet and the keywork are well-made, the quality of assembly out of the Czech factory is noticeably inferior to the premium instruments. However, I've had some fun correcting various adjustments, getting some very pleasing improvements in resonance from increasing the venting in a few places, and making some cosmetic improvements through better finished cork etc. The results so far, which have cost virtually nothing as I've done the work myself, have left me satisfied with my decision not to buy the Patricola. I plan to get it re-padded with top quality pads, which I'm confident will leave me with an instrument good enough for most ensembles, at a fraction of the price of the premium models.
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Author: Franklin Liao
Date: 2011-10-20 05:38
Trevor, Clarnibass has in the past made a review of the Forte' C clarinet, which the newer Amati followed rather closely. Granted, it is best that you judge each instrument individually, but I share his sentiments about the altissimo and upper clarion response with him. As I've only tried Patricola CL.2 Bb, I cannot really say much on the C horn.
Intonation issue with C often arise, from what I've gathered thus far, with the incorrect assumption that one can merely scale the dimensions of the Bb down to make a C. Many earlier instruments as a result are pale shadows of their Bb cousins. Later works, such as Leblanc horn under Rideour, have seen an improvement, but some issues remain.
With contemporary Cs, one could say that typical issues on a Bb are inherited and a few one ones would gnaw at the user. The bell note, the throat note, the D# key for example are compounded with the difference in resistance. Mechanical issues such as keywork spacing considerations crop up as well, and that must not be understated.
From prior correspondence with Morrie Backun, I can say that he has had RCs and R13 in C in need of tuning, while urging sincerely against the older C instruments. (as a sidenote, the best C instrument I've ever tried was one that he tuned and paired with his bell and barrel)
Ridenour horns are what one can achieve with expert tuning and dimensioning on the Chinese manufacturing norm. There are good and bad associated with this approach, but it does deliver the goods in having a playable instrument instead of a clarinet-shaped object.
I cannot really say definitely if intonation issues have been solved with the premium RC Prestige in C. What is known from my very short time playing on one is that the instrument is not nearly as alien going from Bb to C as comparing E11 Bb to C, and that the resistance is far more even to this novice.
Post Edited (2011-10-20 05:45)
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