 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Beth
Date: 2001-02-04 00:32
gosh, i know im opening a whole can of worms with this...but i would really like to get some opinions on this. Originally a flute player and eventually a saxophone and oboe player, in addition to clarinet, i was taught and always have used vibrato...but never much for clarinet. occasionally when i have played it for jazz band i would use vibrato, i.e. the lead clarinet part in Moonlight Serende, but that was the extent of the use. but i have found the sound of vibrato on clarinet, even in classical, to be quite pleasing. maybe because im partial using it on flute sax and oboe in classical playing, but i like it. before i knew that you didnt use it on clarinet(i taught myself, how was i to know), i used it a bit, but my teacher in school and a private teacher both told me not to use it, so i assumed that i would never use it for classical playing. but after trying it again, hearing it on a recording, reading articles, and reading old posts from here, it seems like it isnt as evil as everyone makes it to be. i personally like it, and would like to use it in the pieces im working on right now...and since most(if not all) high school clarinestists dont use it, itll add my own little personal touch :] for an all-state audition, im going to be playing the Mozart Concerto...and once the audition is over, id like to work on the Brahms Sonata. would the vibrato be appropriate for these pieces? and do you think a judge would penialize me for using vibrato? thats another thing im afraid of (in addition to my teachers telling me not to play with it), because it is not a standard thing for clarinet, the damn judges would probably take off points. *sigh* nor does it help that in school both my teachers are brass players, and were taught NO VIBRATO ON CLARINET. id really like to intergrate it into my clarinet playing, and just wanted to get some opinions. thats all, so any advice or comments ill listen to with an open mind. i just wanna get some opinions before i rebel :]
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Author: Aussie Nick
Date: 2001-02-04 01:10
Im sure alot of people will disagree with me saying this. Most classical players don't use it at all, however there are some like Jack Brymer who added his touch of vibrato to the Mozart Concerto and many of his other recordings I'm sure, without sacrificing the peice's beauty. So my point would be, if you really want to use it and you feel it is a part of your style, well I guess some would be ok. Just make sure you use it very carefully and sparingly, otherwise judges etc will just stare at you like an idiot
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Author: john gibson
Date: 2001-02-04 01:38
Geez....whatever sounds good. There are no rules if you are a true musician. Make music and have a good time.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2001-02-04 01:57
John,
I'm not sure sometimes that "sounds good" is quite enough.
By doing a bit of historical research we can surmise when vibrato was used and when it fell out of favor. Used in those lines we may at least be relatively comfortable in our usage. The same thing goes for cadenza and eingang, along with inventive embellishments that were proper for their day.
See www.ocr.sneezy.org for some articles by Dan Leeson on all the above, and the section on vibrato in the Study section here.
If we want to go off on some tangent from current usage, it's always good to be prepared to intelligently discuss the subject, otherwise we will be lambasted for the departure from the current idiom and won't be able to argue the points.
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Author: Andy
Date: 2001-02-04 02:40
I'm not saying I agree or disagree, but Richard Muhfield's mouthpiece shows definite signs of him having played with vibrato.
So, Brahms' description of the most beautiful clarient sound he had ever heard was one that contained vibrato....
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Author: Ginny
Date: 2001-02-04 03:05
My own experience is that 'vanilla' interpertations get higher scores that rebellious ones. The judges will cancel each other out if some love your playing but others hate it, and vibrato is likely to set that senario up.
Personally I like vibrato, and think that clarinetists miss out on one of the most powerful expressive tools that other instruments use without question.
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Author: Anji
Date: 2001-02-04 12:49
Personally, I love the whiff of Schmalz a nice vibrato lends.
As a Dixieland fan, I'm trying to learn how to add it as seasoning.
Given a normally resistant rig, I can't manage it at all.
This is surprising, in that my singing is woefully colored by vibrato!
I think it has reached consensus, if you apply vibrato in the Chamber or Classical setting; the "cheese factor" will rise.
So for me, the key is to play fully without vibrato in normal conditions and learn to add it for flavoring as the musical source code indicates ONLY.
There's no indication of any mordent or sostenuto requiring any quaver.
anji
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Author: Bob Sparkman
Date: 2001-02-04 16:20
Jazz clarinetists have always used vibrato, less so as the music "modernized", it seems; but even Eddie Daniels (very discreetly), Jimmy Giuffre and Buddy DeFranco have "touches" of it in their playing. Johnny Dodds probably had the broadest vibrato; but the marvel of all clarinet vibrato, in my opinion, is Lester Young's, on clarinet - hear Count Basie's "Blue And Sentimental" or The Kansas City Six recording of "I Want A Little Girl". They are marvelous. Irving Fazola had a lovely vibrato, as did Artie Shaw. Classical: How about Reginald Kell? And, of course, Jack Brymer.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-02-04 16:57
Still though a player might want to consider tailoring its use to the audience. Many contest judges will have been taught that vibrato should not be used on the clarinet.
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Author: Bob Sparkman
Date: 2001-02-04 17:03
Yes - when in Rome ----. Also, our first "audience" is our fellow players, and we do what works in context, or try to.
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2001-02-04 17:23
Mark, I'm not going to participate on this one this time. Only one question; How can Andy see on Richard Mühlfelds mouthpiece that he used vibrato?
For the rest, go to http://www.standingstones.com/vibrtopg.html
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Author: Andy
Date: 2001-02-04 23:10
Alphie,
I would refer you to studies completed by Keith Puddy, the english clarinettist who has conducted intensive research into the clarinets and mouthpieces used by Muhlfield. He has even recorded the Brahms sonatas using these instruments (interesting (?) recordings) in the notes to these recordings he explains how he came to these conclusions. Also when reading reviews of the day you can read between the lines and sense that the reviewer in many instances is referring to vibrato. Finally other wind players of the day have passed down the information that Muhlfield played with vibrato, and I think that any wind player would notice this immediatly
Andy
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2001-02-04 23:47
Mark, I'm in...!?
Andy, I have met Keith Puddy and know about his research on these matters. Give me some time to refresh my memory and you 'll get my opinion. My question was only about your statement that you can see on a mouthpiece that someone played with vibrato?
About revieuws from the time we have to keep in mind that this was before the time when comments like, "warm tone", "passionate" and "expressive" necessarily meant vibrato. Specially if you only read between the lines.
I'm seriously curious to know wich windplayers you refer to since I've missed that.
Alphie
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Author: Stefano
Date: 2001-02-05 13:13
Beth:
I hate to say this, but I strongly suggest to take your audition by playing the pieces in a "traditional" and conservative way.
The judges are called to test your standard ability and to "see" what you have learned so far, not to say if you will become the next Brymer (in 85% of case this in not in their ability anyway).
Once you have made it through your studies, then you can you do it "your way".
Good luck
Stefano
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2001-02-05 16:50
The only reference to Muhlfeld using vibrato I have heard is a story that someone met an old man who said he had played viola in the Brahms Quintet with Muhlfeld and that he used a "big vibrato." The storyteller asked "you mean a big rubato," and the old man said "no, vibrato."
I have trouble imagining how using vibrato would leave marks on a mouthpiece. I have the Keith Puddy recording where he plays Muhlfeld's restored Bb clarinet. As I recall, it's musically quite good, though not the very best, and he struggles a bit with the non-boehm fingering. Still, it's a treat to hear how the actual instrument sounded.
Andy -- where is the article by Puddy you refer to? I'd like to read it, and maybe he'd give Mark or Stan Geidel permission to put it on Sneezy, here or in the Online Clarinet Resource.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Robin
Date: 2001-02-06 11:10
A few weeks ago I met a funny old Clarinet player who had played Brahms' trio with a funny old cellist who had performed the work with a funny old Clarinettist called Richard Muhfield!
"What did this cellist say about Muhfield?" I asked the old man. He replied, "oh he said there were many other Clarinettists in Vienna who were much better than Muhfield. Many others!"
Just goes to show a good review and good relationships with a good composer can go a long way!
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Author: charles
Date: 2001-02-07 01:59
re vibrato. Listen to any recordings of Sidney bechet who had the widest and fastest vibrato of all players.His vibrato added drama and intensity to his playing. However in classical music, I personally object to a vibrato
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Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2001-02-10 10:40
It is a matter of taste. I use a small vibrato a lot of the time and get many comments about the character of my sound being originally a jazz player who has gone back into he classical field. I find that vibrato works well in chamber music, wind quintets and quartets because flute, oboe and bassoon all use it and so does the occassional french horn player. Orchestrally the clarinet often sticks out as the only wind instrument that doesn't use vibrato which may be linked to the very large bore horns eg. Buffet Festivals used for this sort of playing which dont lend themselves to expression but are strictly made for volume production.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2001-02-11 01:18
Mark Pinner wrote:
>
Orchestrally the clarinet often sticks out as the only
> wind instrument that doesn't use vibrato which may be linked to
> the very large bore horns eg. Buffet Festivals used for this
> sort of playing which dont lend themselves to expression but
> are strictly made for volume production.
Francois Kloc of Buffet has stated that the bore of the Festival is the same as the R13. See http://www.sneezy.org/Databases/Logs/1998/08/000403.txt. There is a difference in the bore taper, not bore diameter.
If Jacques Lancelot, Guy Deplus and Michel Arrignon aren't expressive then I don't know who is ...
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