 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bart Hendrix
Date: 2001-02-04 15:58
For a very long time, I have had a pre-WW II Kohlert Bb. For some thirty years or so, I have done little with it beyond making sure maintenance was done and occasionally warming it up with the intent that "some day" I would get back to playing it regularly. Since "some day" seems to have come, I decided to treat myself to a new mouthpiece. I ordered a mouthpiece from one of the BB spoonsors, but was dismayed to find when it arrived that it did not fit my horn. I can safely put it far enough into the barrel to find out that I really like it, but I don't dare try to seat it for fear it would never come out. The new mouthpiece tenon has a diameter of 22.3 mm (0.875 inch), which I assume is the current standard. That compares to a tenon diameter of 22.0 mm for my other mouthpieces which were purchased long ago.
I hesitate to permanently alter my existing barrel, both because I am afraid of the reduced strength in the joint and because I don't like the idea of carving on my horn. In addition, that would make my other mouthpieces too loose. The mouthpiece manufacturer advised that attempting to alter the mouthpiece would, most likely, result in its destruction. I plan to try turning a new barrel or two myself to see what happens, but that project has to take its place in line.
--Are smaller diameter mouthpieces still available somewhere? If so, where?
--Does anyone have any ideas for a short-term cure, or do I just need to accelerate my plans to get a new horn?
Thanks for your input.
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Author: William
Date: 2001-02-04 16:35
Unless you intend to sell your clarinet as an antique someday, I would not hestiate to alter "carve" the inside of the barrel to accomodate your new mouthpiece. It will not harm your instrument and will allow you to try other mouthpieces as well. An alternative solution would be to try a newer barrel and alter the upper joint tendon cork. Good luck.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-02-04 16:47
William wrote:
>
> Unless you intend to sell your clarinet as an antique
> someday, I would not hestiate to alter "carve" the inside of
> the barrel to accomodate your new mouthpiece. It will not harm
> your instrument and will allow you to try other mouthpieces as
> well. An alternative solution would be to try a newer barrel
> and alter the upper joint tendon cork. Good luck
But have a qualified technician do the alteration.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-02-04 16:51
Bart Hendrix wrote:
>
> ... I can safely put it far
> enough into the barrel to find out that I really like it, but I
> don't dare try to seat it for fear it would never come out. The
> new mouthpiece tenon has a diameter of 22.3 mm (0.875 inch),
> which I assume is the current standard. That compares to a
> tenon diameter of 22.0 mm for my other mouthpieces which were
> purchased long ago.
I have several clarinets that are 70 to 80 years old and modern mouthpieces fit just fine. Are you measuring the tenon diameter or the diameter across the cork on the mouthpiece? If it's just the cork, a tech can quickly sand it down to fit. The fact that you can insert it part way tends to indicate more of a cork problem than actual tenon problem.
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Author: Robert Gifford
Date: 2001-02-04 17:46
I semi concur with Dee, it might just be the cork... because I just got a new mouthpeice for my new R-13 Vintage, and it was a bit snug in the barrel, but I just took some sand paper and ground down the cork a bit and it fit fine.
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Author: Bart Hendrix
Date: 2001-02-04 17:53
The measurement was taken on the tenon below the cork. Unlike my other mouthpieces, the material of the mouthpiece is fully in contact (light to moderate slip fit) with the wood of the barrel before the cork reaches the barrel. Because of its compressability, I have not attempted to take any dimensions on the diameter of the cork. My assumption is that the Kohlert (because of its age and being manufactured in Graslitz) is truly metric with the tenon being exactly a whole number of millimeters in diameter. On the other hand, my new mouthpiece has a diameter on the tenon that is neatly English (exactly seven-eights inch). That's just enough to make the difference in a closely fitted joint.
Actually, I guess my concern is more the result of curiosity and being interested in anything I can learn about the clarinet rather than a true need to solve the problem. I have several other mouthpieces which work well (which I would no longer be able to use if I altered the barrel) as well as an exceptionally secure line on obtaining a Selmer Centered Tone (my brother has switched to an R13, but does not want to sell his Selmer just to get it used -- can we say "long term loan"?).
I welcome any input to further my education.
Thanks
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Author: William
Date: 2001-02-04 22:00
I agree with Dee (poetic, huh???). Have a qualified technician do the alterations. Good clarineting.
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Author: Bart Hendrix
Date: 2001-02-04 22:21
Should I assume from the responses that nobody is aware of a mouthpiece with the smaller tenon still being available anywhere? I would prefer not to disable my other mouthpieces just to use the new one if there is an alternative. The difference is only about the thickness of a playing card, but makes a big difference on this horn. Can anyone verify if my assumption of Metric vs. English measure has any validity here and, if so, when the shift may have taken place (obviously, from the responses, the problem does not involve all manufacturers)? All tenons on this horn turn out to be exact whole or half millimeter diameters, but very strange if you try to use inches.
Thanks
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2001-02-04 23:36
One must realize that wood does contract with age. Perhaps this is what has happened since the instrument has been idle all this while.
John
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Author: Bart Hendrix
Date: 2001-02-05 02:57
That could definitely explain a possible close tolerance in the joint, but that does not explain how all of my older mouthpieces measure exactly 22.0 mm and the new one alone 22.3 mm (exactly seven-eighths inch). The old mouthpieces are not wood, none was stored in place on the barrel and all fit nicely into the barrel now. How would they all shrink exactly the same amount regardless of age or material? Can anyone measure one of their own mouthpieces to see which theirs match? At this point, I don't have anything else with which to compare to determine which dimension is "normal".
I am obviously still trying to learn about mouthpieces, but I do know for sure that all of the screws on this instrument have metric threads. Does anyone know for sure about newer horns?
Thanks for tollerating my questions. I really do want to learn the details.
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Author: Bob Curtis
Date: 2001-02-05 03:16
Bart:
Contact a good woodwind repair specialist who works on clarinets and get his advice about your problem. He can tell you what can be done, how it should be done, the consequences on altering the barrel of your instrument, etc. Unless you know what you are doing you could cause some serious damage which might not be able to be repaired because of (1) the type of instrument which you have and (2) the age of the instrument. To my knowledge the Kohlert is not a common clarinet which is use in the USA. When in doubt, ask the experts!
Good luck.
Bob Curtis
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Author: Terry Horlick
Date: 2001-02-05 14:46
You said you could turn a new barrel. You therefore have a lathe and skills. I just got a nice sounding plastic barrel for my R13. It was about $80 at Woodwinds and Brasswinds. I would get one of them and then turn the inside of the top barrel joint larger to fit the new mouthpiece. Be sure to measure your bore and the barrel length so you can ask them which one you need.
You then can play your clarinet and mouthpieces with no modification to them. If you get another mouthpiece you are set. At worst you are out a really tacky looking piece of plastic.
Terry
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-02-05 16:34
Bart - I read your post earlier, it sounds like you still have questions, beyond just finding a mp which fits your barrel BOTH as to inside and outside diameter. My A clar is an Kohlert Winnenden also quite old. It demands a larger tenon diameter also. Presently, of my numerous sop cl mp's, the best bore-size AND tenon [outside] fitting I've found is with a quite recent.Yamaha 4C mp. I play the A infrequently any more so can't speak to its playability. As I recall, earlier I used a 1950's Selmer mp, and may have had to recork it to the larger diameter. I would suggest that matching the mp and barrel bores is far more important than a slightly-undersized tenon-end with a good fitting cork!! Luck, Don
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Author: drew
Date: 2001-02-05 17:26
Hi Bart,
I had a similar problem with a Leblanc instrument; all of my mouthpieces (a mix of Selmers, Mitchell Lurie, Vandorens, Woodwind) had a very tight fit to the Leblanc barrel, but the Leblanc stock mouthpiece was just right. I had an Accubore barrel which exhibited the opposite characteristics; good fit with all my mouthpieces and loose with the Leblanc.
The technician (a professional) "reamed" the upper barrel socket on the Leblanc slightly, and recorked the Leblanc mouthpiece. End result was "every mouthpiece fit every barrel."
A basic rule of woodworking is "measure twice, cut once." I have two pieces of advise:
Don't attempt this yourself, get your instrument to a good tech.
Compare your barrel and mouthpiece fit problem with as many other mouthpieces and barrels as you can get your hands on.
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