 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: DanzClarinerd
Date: 2011-10-15 01:28
I have a Backun ringless 66mm barrel for my E11, the only problem is that whenever i am using it, the barrel rocks back and forth along with the mouthpiece. it has reached the point where i do not use it anymore and use the original E11 barrel.
has anyone ever had this problem with a barrel before?
i have tried putting some white plumbers tape on the top joint tenon, and that seems to work for a while but it looks unsightly and usually wears out after a while...my last option would have to be to replace the cork on the top joint for a thicker one to compensate for the loose barrel but i really don't know how much that will cost or where to get it done
some help or advice would be greatly appreciated
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Author: gsurosey
Date: 2011-10-15 02:27
I have the same issue with my Eb clarinet (Bundy clarinet, Scott barrel). I have the tenon wrapped with plumbers tape as well (as well as the lower tenon). My barrel still moves a bit, though it is improved after wrapping it. I would like to get a new barrel at some point anyway; I need something longer (my current barrel is 40mm; I need to pull it out at least 2mm before I even warm up). Mouthpiece is a Vandoren B40 (I would like a new one of those, too; something closer).
----------
Rachel
Clarinet Stash:
Bb/A: Buffet R13
Eb: Bundy
Bass: Royal Global Max
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2011-10-15 02:50
It's very easy for a repair tech to put a new cork on the tenon and shouldn't cost much - it should be less than a half-hour's work.
The only problem will be that you may then be unable to use the original barrel if it's so different in socket size from the Backun barrel.
Karl
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2011-10-15 05:31
Replace the cork. Any repairman can do this for $5 to $10.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2011-10-15 05:45)
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2011-10-15 07:30
Take it to your local musical instrument repairer and have the cork replaced. It's a minor job and won't break the bank. Your local music shop will have a repairer on tap if you don't know where to find one.
Tony F.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-10-15 11:35
Saying things like "it should be less than a half-hour's work" or "
Any repairman can do this for $5 to $10" is only going to cause trouble if it takes longer or costs more as each repairer will take as long as they have to and charge what they feel is right for replacing tenon corks.
Don't go along expecting to be in and out within half an hour and only expecting to pay $5 for a tenon cork replacement as you may be in for a much longer wait and may have to pay more.
A slap-dash tenon cork replacement can be done in minutes and cost very little, but it may not be the prettiest or most reliable job. I've seen loads of clarinets listed on eBay supposedly having an 'artisan' or 'top quality' overhaul only to see really grotty looking tenon corks that are flat on the surface and still have square edges (instead of being rounded off) and finished with coarse grade abrasive leaving the surface looking like a ploughed field. They have to look as good as they function as well as lasting a long time.
But the socket and tenon should ideally be as good a fit as possible without the tenon cork fitted as this will prevent rocking or wobbling - the tenon cork is there to apply outward pressure on the socket to keep the joints together and also to act as an air and water-tight gasket. But with aftermarket barrels and also with previous repairers being a bit over-enthusiastic with their sanding (or just poor workmanship on the instrument to begin with), tenons and sockets don't always end up being a good fit with each other and fitting a thicker tenon cork is done to hide (but not cure) this shortcoming.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2011-10-15 13:09
Chris P wrote:
>
> Don't go along expecting to be in and out within half an hour
> and only expecting to pay $5 for a tenon cork replacement as
> you may be in for a much longer wait and may have to pay more.
>
Chris, you're right of course that this can be a little unpredictable. It's always possible that there will be something unusual about a specific case. It might turn out that removing the old cork is unusually difficult. Or the old cork may have been covering some irregularity in the tenon or cork seat that needs to be addressed before putting a new cork in place. Any such unexpected difficulty will add time and cost to the job and can't really be predicted ahead of time. I think all of us were making the basic point that it's normally not a difficult or complicated repair that Dan should avoid because of a potentially high cost.
>
> But the socket and tenon should ideally be as good a fit as
> possible without the tenon cork fitted as this will prevent
> rocking or wobbling - the tenon cork is there to apply outward
> pressure on the socket to keep the joints together and also to
> act as an air and water-tight gasket.
I've read this before - not sure if in something you wrote or something from another tech here or on Klarinet. But can a fit that's too tight between the tenon itself and the socket (whether it's a barrel or a bell or even the middle joint) contribute to the problem of binding joints, the kind of thing people with new clarinets sometimes experience when the weather warms up and the wood expands? How close a fit should it be without the cork? Does rocking depend more on the fit or on the sharpness of the right angle at the top of the tenon?
Karl
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-10-15 13:57
The fit between a tenon and socket should ideally have around a 0.1mm difference between them instead of being a tight fit so they both fit together well but neither bind nor rock. But when sockets and tenons bind, only a tiny amount of wood scraped from the tenon where the high spots are is enough to make the difference between binding and fitting easily. In an ideal world if wood wasn't hygroscopic, then we could have sockets and tenons made to fit precisely like the sockets and corkless tenons seen on plastic recorders or flute and sax joints that are machined to be a precise fit with each other. But wood being wood it will change all the time, so some allowances have to be made.
If both tenon rings are worn down by having been sanded down or the socket is a larger diameter, then rocking will happen regardless of the thickness of the tenon cork. The ends of the tenon should be right angles, though with metal tipped tenons it's best to have the sharp leading edge slightly chamfered or rounded so it doesn't scrape the inside of the socket durng assembly which will enlarge the socket over time.
The entrance of the socket should also have a slight chamfer to prevent the tenon cork from catching, especially as there are often hard lumps in the cork which are more likely to get torn out during assembly - the slight chamferacts as a funnel and allows the tenon cork to compress smoothly as it's fitted into the socket.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2011-10-15 16:32
Thanks, Chris There's a lot here I didn't know. In particular I've never noticed the chamfer on the ends of the sockets. I'll be more aware to look for it when I get my instruments out later today.
Unfortunately, even machining metal sax tenons (I assume you mean neck tenons where they fit into the instrument body) doesn't guarantee a lastingly perfect fit. I just played a show and battled for the entire week with a tenor neck that could still rotate even with the screw well tightened and a soprano sax neck that didn't want to slide in or rotate even with the screw completely backed off. Both will need to be attended to now that the week's work is done, but it's hard to understand why these problems would develop in the first place with metal.
Karl
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Author: DanzClarinerd
Date: 2011-10-17 04:14
thanks for the info. i might just go and get it done by the end of the week. im very busy being drum major for my high school marching, a little time apart from my clarinet will do no harm
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2011-10-18 12:27
Wobbling can cause squeaking owing to air leakage. You can use plumbers teflon tape (it is non-stick) as a temporary fix. (Lowes or HDepot). Wrap the tenon cork a few times.
You did not mention the type of wood, so I am just throwing the thought out there, and it probably does not apply to you unless you have something exotic:
Rarely, Some woods widen at the socket (some Rosewoods, not usually Grenadilla. Cocobolo tends to narrow). If that has occured, contact the maker.
disclaimer. I make and sell my own custom barrels.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
Post Edited (2011-10-18 12:31)
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Author: Corey
Date: 2011-10-18 17:16
I just had the same problem fixed by my local repairman. He used superglue to add to the barrel joint. It works quite well and is stable over time and did not require changing the cork, so my other barrels continue to fit if I want to use them. I was advised to do this by Luis Rossi who gave me the barrel at the last Clarinet Fest in Northridge. He said he does this fix all the time when required. I certainly didn't try it myself. But Lee at Lee's Sax Worx knew exactly what to do.
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