 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Mstrampp1994
Date: 2011-10-05 20:23
Hi,
Umm I currently play on a Selmer C100 wooden clarinet, I believe its an entry level clarinet. I'm a junior in high school and have been playing for 7 years now. I'm really looking to upgrade to a professional clarinet, and I would really like some opinions. I've had to the chance to play Leblanc Symphonies, Sonatas, and even the leblanc Bliss. I've also played on a Selmer PT clarinet, either benny goodmans or Pete Fountains can't remember, either way I really didn't like the intonation of this particular model I always felt like it was out of tune. The first sonata I played on was beautiful, the second was brand new and I deffently didn't like it as much as the first one. The symphonie's were nice but not great. I havn't had the chance to play on any other clarinet's yet. Oh the bliss was nice too, except I wasn't to crazy about the black nickel plating stuff. If you could give me your feedback that would be wonderful. =]
-Mackenzie
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Author: William
Date: 2011-10-05 20:44
The Leblanc Sonata is the accoustical twin of their top of the line Opus and Concerto clarinets and is a very good option if you are on a budget. However, before you go Leblanc, I would recommend that you try a Buffet R13. I have played both Leblanc Concertos and Buffet R13s extensively and prefer the musical flexability of the Buffets. The modern Leblancs are well in tune with even scales, but they are rather inflexable with regards to musical expression. And, I just like the Buffet sound over those of the Leblancs and Selmers. Alsoi, keep in mind that a used clarinet is usually just as good (or better) that a new one--and sometimes for half the cost.
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Author: gwie
Date: 2011-10-05 21:00
Inflexible musical expression is a software (player) problem, not a hardware (instrument) one. There are great players on every make of clarinet...
A used clarinet *can* be a good deal, as long as it doesn't have any structural defects and doesn't require too much restoration to get it into good playing order.
All things considered, clarinets are relatively inexpensive as far as instruments go, so as long as you budget enough you will have many, many choices.
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2011-10-05 21:03
Try before buy. No two ,of any make and model, are alike.
richard smith
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Author: Jaytm92
Date: 2011-10-06 12:11
I would definetly look into Peter Eaton clarinets. I got one several years ago and it is amazing...I really love the sound it produces. The low notes are beautiful, full, rounded and in general the instrument is a pleasure to play. I'm looking into getting an A clarinet by Peter Eaton. However it is down to personal choice and I would say you MUST go and spend hours in a music shop that has a wide selection and see which one matches you the best...all clarinets are different!
Hope that helps
Jay Moore
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2011-10-06 12:56
Be sure to check out the Yamaha professional level instruments. They offer remarkable quality at a very reasonable price. In the end, it comes down to what you think suits you best, regardless of make or price. Don't shop for a label, shop for the best instrument you can buy within your budget.
Tony F.
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2011-10-06 13:51
Mackenzie,
Can you give us an idea of what your budget is? It sounds like youv'e been looking at mostly used instruments so far, so are you planning to buy a used clarinet or a new one? I'd probably recomment buying used as you can get more bang for your buck that way.
If you post your budget many of us can give you some recommendations on what models you might want to look at.
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Author: Mstrampp1994
Date: 2011-10-06 23:33
Ummm. I've been looking to spend up to $1000. I paid $275 for my selmer 2 years ago. I've been looking at mostly used instruments, as many of you have said you get a quality instrument for half the price. I did find a Leblanc opus on ebay for $1000 and found a few sonata's around $500. I'm kinda waiting for my music store to aquire some buffet's so I could have a chance to try them. Everyone speaks so highly of them. I havn't been able to try any yamaha's either.
I did bid on a buffet vintage eflat clarinet. I'm hoping to win the bid. I think it would be a fun thing to toy around with.
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2011-10-07 12:47
Mstrampp1994 wrote:
> Ummm. I've been looking to spend up to $1000. I paid $275 for
> my selmer 2 years ago. I've been looking at mostly used
> instruments, as many of you have said you get a quality
> instrument for half the price. I did find a Leblanc opus on
> ebay for $1000 and found a few sonata's around $500. I'm kinda
> waiting for my music store to aquire some buffet's so I could
> have a chance to try them. Everyone speaks so highly of them. I
> havn't been able to try any yamaha's either.
$1000 will get you a very good used clarinet. You probably won't be able to find a Buffet clarinet at that price unless it's a pre-R13 model (which are only OK players) or is in lousy condition (a good overhaul will add a few hundred dollars to the price). The popularity of the Buffet brand keeps the prices of used clarinets made by them very high in comparisson to other brands.
One thing you may want to consider is getting a Ridenour 576BC. They sell new for <$1000 and are designed and personally setup by Tom Ridenour (the same guy who designed the Leblanc Opus and Sonata). http://www.ridenourclarinetproducts.com/Bbclarpg.html
If you still want to look at used models I have a few recommendations of models you may want to consider:
Leblanc: Dynamique/Dynamic/Dynamic II/Dynamic H/Pete Fountain/Big Easy (all pretty much the same clarinet), any of the "L-series" (LL,L7,L27,L70, L200,L300, LX2000) , Sonata, Concerto, or Opus.
Selmer Paris: Centered Tone, Series 9, Series 10, or Series 10G. Newer models (eg. Recital, Signature, etc.) are excellent as well but probably won't be found anywhere near your budget.
Marigaux: Mostly marked "King Marigaux" as they were market in the us by King/HN WHite. The 300 and 350 models are excellent from what I've seen. You may want to consider this one that Vytas Krass has for sale: http://www1.webng.com/myclarinet/marigaux350.htm
Boosey & Hawkes: Edgware, 2-20, 4-20, 8-10, or 926 Imperial. These all have the same acoustical design and are excellent players. The Symphony 1010 is better still but they are somewhat rare in the US.
Yamaha: The older YCL-6x models are good instruments and a good value.
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Author: Mstrampp1994
Date: 2011-10-07 18:20
SteveG_CT wrote:
One thing you may want to consider is getting a Ridenour 576BC. They sell new for <$1000 and are designed and personally setup by Tom Ridenour (the same guy who designed the Leblanc Opus and Sonata). http://www.ridenourclarinetproducts.com/Bbclarpg.html
Wow, I just read his grenadilla myth story. Steve have you tried this clarinet? Is Hard rubber really better than wood?
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Author: Mstrampp1994
Date: 2011-10-07 18:30
DavidBlumberg wrote:
A myth with another myth.....
What does that mean? Im all for reading about things. But you dont know until you try. David it says your a backun artist. Whats ur opinion of their barrels and bells? Would it be something to consider investing in?
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2011-10-07 18:42
I have owned one of the Lyrique 576 BC models, and they are excellent players. Very well in tune and excellent, even scale. It also comes with two tuning barrels of different lengths.
Tom's a great guy to deal with, too. I wasn't very fond of the MP he sent with the clarinet, but that's a different issue. I would hardly expect a <$75 MP to compare with my Grabner K13 or my Gregory Smith.
Give Tom a call and discuss it with him. If you want a wooden clarinet, ask him about his new G1. More expensive, but you might want to consider it anyway!
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2011-10-07 18:59
Mstrampp1994 wrote:
> Wow, I just read his grenadilla myth story. Steve have you
> tried this clarinet? Is Hard rubber really better than wood?
I haven't had a chance to try a Lyrique personally yet but have generally heard good things about them. I do own a few B&H clarinets in both hard rubber and wood. They play exactly the same as far as I can tell.
The debate over whether wood is really superior or not gets rehashed on this forum every few weeks and usually ends in a stalemate. Personally I think the material the clarinet is made out of is of minimal importance. I own a couple of metal clarinets that can hang with any wood clarinet I've played and I own some hard rubber clarinets that play just as well as their wooden counterparts.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2011-10-07 19:14
Jack dons his flame-retardant underwear.
Here's a rule of thumb I just invented. If you take your playing seriously, never make a Bb soprano clarinet that's considerably older than you are your main horn (unless it's a Buffet R13 from 1960 or later or you are a (professional) jazz, klezmer or ethnic clarinetist who wants a big bore instrument or an Albert system. Based on that "rule," Mackenzie, I would recommend you try to find an instrument manufactured 1990 or later and certainly not before 1980. I would also recommend you look for something with a mainstream design.
For the above reasons, I have to disagree with a number of the models Steve has recommended. On his list, I consider the following clarinets too old/idiosyncratic if you plan to continue playing into and perhaps beyond college (though most of these might be adequate for an adult amateur who plays recreationally in a community band):
Leblanc: Dynamique/Dynamic/Dynamic II/Dynamic H/Pete Fountain/Big Easy (all pretty much the same clarinet), LL.
I really can't get excited about the L7,L27,L70, L200,L300, or LX2000, either. Not that they are bad clarinets. Just that, with $1,000 to spend, you should be able to do much better. If I were you, I wouldn't look at any Leblanc made prior to the Concerto and Opus. IMO, those models finally made Leblanc competitive with Buffet and Selmer.
Selmer Paris: Centered Tone, Series 9 For Selmer, I wouldn't look at anything prior to an S10.
Marigaux (unless you find one produced during the last couple of years the company made clarinets. These do not include the King Marigaux though I will agree the one Vytas has for sale looks beautiful.
Boosey & Hawkes: Edgware (a student model!), 2-20, 4-20, 8-10. (I don't think any of these are enough improvement over your C100 to warrant making them your next step. Personally, I think you are on the wrong side of the pond to look at any Boosey and Hawkes clarinet.)
MOO,
jnk
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Author: Mstrampp1994
Date: 2011-10-07 19:55
I really love the way my selmer plays. On its good days it sounds gorgeous. By good days I mean if im feeling good and my reeds dont go out on me. I think I play on a pretty good set up. I use a Larry Combs LC1 mouthpiece, prior to this I was playing on a Vandoren 5RV. I use Vandoren Rue Lepic 56 reeds, size 3.5. I use a luyben ligature. The only other clarinet that I really loved the sound of was the first Sonata I played on. I'd really like to buy something that im already comfortable with. More suggestions would be nice too. =] Today has turned into Mackenzie's clarinet research day.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2011-10-07 19:57
I agree with Jack especially if the person doing the play testing is not a crack player.
One word on the "material issue." My perspective is from the standpoint of the R13 Greenline but I think this can be a broad paintbrush: non-living material will NOT 'settle' after fabrication like real wood. Therefore the internal pitch is pretty consistent with what the factory had in mind (in the case of hard rubber etc.) when they sent it out UNLIKE many wood clarinets that become quirky due to bore or tone-hole irregularities that can cause pitch and response irregularities.
Playing R13s side by side made of wood vs. Greenline, the difference is very slight (ok, I'll say it - with wood only being slightly more 'resonant').
...................Paul Aviles
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Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2011-10-07 20:16
Alright, Jack, I'll play.
You wrote:
"If you take your playing seriously, never make a Bb soprano clarinet that's considerably older than you are your main horn (unless it's a Buffet R13 from 1960 or later or you are a (professional) jazz, klezmer or ethnic clarinetist who wants a big bore instrument or an Albert system."
I completely and utterly disagree. I've known professional players who used instruments (of more than one make) from the 1940s and 1950s for orchestral jobs, and sounded great when they did. It depends upon the horn and the player.
For the record, my clarinets were already legal drinking age by the time I was born. And oh the stories they can tell...
Down with age discrimination!
Up with bore size!
;)
Eric
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2011-10-07 20:21
Mackenzie:
I own a Ridenour 576BC clarinet and, since you have $1000 to spend, I honestly don't think you can do better at that price point. The 576BC has very comfortable keywork that's beautifully regulated by Tom Ridenour, and has a very even scale with excellent tuning. It took somewhat of a lengthy mouthpiece safari for me to find a mouthpiece/reed/ligature setup that works well for me on the 576BC, but after sorting that out, the clarinet has proven to be superb.
I think Jack's advice is spot-on: Anyone considering serious clarinet study at the collegiate level is going to want an instrument with a modern, polycylindrical bore in the mold of an R13, YCL-650, and the like. As much as I enjoy my Noblets and Boosey & Hawkes 8-10, I wouldn't even think of going off to school with them except for use as secondary jazz horns.
Regarding the Backun bells and barrels: I own a Backun MoBa barrel in grenadilla and I think it's excellent, worth every bit of the $295 I paid for it. I bought the MoBa to get coax some extra performance out of my Noblet Normandy while I was saving up for a better clarinet, and it really opened up the tone, made fortissimo playing much easier, evened out the registers, and improved the tuning of my trusty old horn. You might want to trial some Backun barrels with your CL100; perhaps you'll find in a new barrel on your CL100 what you're hoping to find in a new clarinet.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2011-10-07 20:54
About three years ago, I bought at auction a USA Selmer 100 clarinet for my granddaughter. After I overhauled and tuned it, I felt that it played quite well and could use it in situations where I normally play my Buffet R13, which I like a lot. Good luck!
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2011-10-07 21:21
Jack Kissinger wrote:
> Here's a rule of thumb I just invented. If you take your playing seriously,
> never make a Bb soprano clarinet that's considerably older than you are
> your main horn (unless it's a Buffet R13 from 1960 or later or you are a
> (professional) jazz, klezmer or ethnic clarinetist who wants a big bore
> instrument or an Albert system. Based on that "rule," Mackenzie, I would
> recommend you try to find an instrument manufactured 1990 or later and
> certainly not before 1980. I would also recommend you look for
> something with a mainstream design.
It's reasonable advice although I obviously don't agree with it. Older instruments can be less than ideal as they may not have intonation quite as good as newer models and it may be harder to find one in good condition. However I don't think this should be grounds to rule them out as options.
The bias against large bore clarinets is largely based on personal preferences in my opinion. Most students learn on large bore clarinets (Bundy, Vito, Yamaha, and even Buffet student clarinets all have a ~15mm cylindrical bores) and many fine professional players of past and present have and do use large bore clarinets.
I have played large bore instruments most of my life and find that I prefer them to narrow bore models. In general I have found that people who are "used to" playing large bore clarinets prefer them while players who are accustomed to playing small bore instruments tend to look at large bore clarinets with disdain. Different preferences I think. Doesn't mean that one side if right and the other is wrong.
> Boosey & Hawkes: Edgware (a student model!), 2-20, 4-20, 8-10.
> (I don't think any of these are enough improvement over your
> C100 to warrant making them your next step. Personally, I
> think you are on the wrong side of the pond to look at any
> Boosey and Hawkes clarinet.)
>
As I mentioned, the Edgware model through the 926 Imperial are the same design. The only differences are wood quality and minor keywork changes (plating thickness/material, etc.). I have a few B&H clarinets (my A clarinet is an Edgware and one of my backup Bb's is a 2-20) and firmly believe that with a good overhaul they can play comparably to most entry level professional clarinets. More importantly they can usually be purchased for <$100 and will end up costing <$500 after a fresh overhaul. They are one of the best values around in my opinion.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2011-10-07 21:21
I would be very interested to know who those clarinetists are, Eric, as well as what they were playing, when and where -- and, if they are still playing, what they are playing now. The only modern major U.S. symphony player I've heard of who used an older clarinet (or pair) for many years was David Shifrin -- as I recall, that was (they were) a 1968 R13, which would fit my list of exceptions. (And, AFAIK, he bought it/them new, in which case they would not have been older than he.)
BTW, given their quality, I would probably include Wurlitzers, Hammerschmidts, and Uebels in my list of exceptions... but only for players with sufficient skill and experience to prefer a German or Austrian or Reformed Boehm system. And surely you wouldn't recommend such a system for a typical American high school student?
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2011-10-07 22:45
SteveG: The preferred student clarinets of today (Leblanc Bliss LB320, Yamaha YCL-250, and Buffet B12) have had a polycylindrical bore for quite some time now.
I doubt many students starting on the Vito 7212/7214 or Selmer 1400 are going to move up to the out-of-production big-bore Leblanc and Selmer instruments when it's time for a pro horn.
As much as I love my big-bore instruments of years gone by and enthusiastically advocate their use in various performance situations, I readily acknowledge that the performance standard of today is a polycylindrical instrument.
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Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2011-10-07 23:18
Jack,
There were some players active just a decade ago who used large bore and/or vintage clarinets in full time symphony orchestras. I knew some of them, but try to make it a policy not to gossip about other peoples' equipment on the BBoard. Many pros just don't want that spread around--they'd rather be known for their playing than their equipment, and I respect their feelings on that matter. As a professional courtesy, and as one who sells clarinets, I think it's important to be careful about those things. In my personal research I've contacted players about their set-up and instruments, but I don't think it would be right for me to talk about those things here--unfortunately that's no good for our discusion, but I hope you understand.
You're right that a High School student is not likely to stumble across a set of vintage Wurlitzers or Uebels, but if they did, I'd tell them to go for it and not look back! Crazy things do happen, and I got my Wurlitzers at age 13.
This aside, I think to rule out an entire class of instruments is extremely provincial and myopic. There are at least a couple of serious and successful young professionals who occasionally post on this board and use large bore instruments. If they care to post on this topic, they will--a little internet research is all it takes to find some of them.
The biggest complaint I hear from those overseas concerning the American clarinet culture is always the same: that we are closed minded about equipment and don't pay attention to the rest of the world. I'd encourage everyone to check out the internet pages of many of the young clarinetists in various parts of the world--check out the equipment they play. Many are large bore, many are hand crafted. There is a vaste array of potential instruments out there right now, and one way of getting aclimated to these new large bore instruments would be to play a good vintage one.
If I had a limited budget, and couldn't get a Wurlitzer, I'd do my best to get one of the large bore 'others' out there that fall distinctly in your banned zone, simply because I have always felt they sound better--and because they'd prepare me for the instruments I would aspire to graduate to.
Why limit the possibilities? Play what you want to SOUND like, not what someone arbitrarily says you SHOULD.
Eric
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2011-10-08 00:02
Ursa wrote:
> I doubt many students starting on the Vito 7212/7214 or Selmer
> 1400 are going to move up to the out-of-production big-bore
> Leblanc and Selmer instruments when it's time for a pro horn.
Perhaps not, but the goal was to provide a list of good quality used clarinets that could be purchased for <$1000. I'm confident that every instrument I listed could be found in good playing shape for that price. Not all of them are large bore either.
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Author: Mstrampp1994
Date: 2011-10-08 13:48
Everyone here is talking about bore size, this idea is completly foreign to me. What kind of bore does my C100 have? What kind of bore should I aim for?
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Author: rmk54
Date: 2011-10-08 13:55
Wow!
Some bizarre answers here.
Mstrampp1994, do yourself a favor and find someone in your area that knows what they are doing, like one of the clarinetists in the Kenosha Symphony (assuming your ISP is showing your local area) or the faculty of a local university.
In other words, somebody that plays or teaches professionally.
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Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2011-10-08 14:53
LOL---You never know when or where the next battle of The Great Bore War will break out! Sorry the gunsmoke is clouding your thread.
I'll keep my advice short: I recommend finding an older, refurbished professional model clarinet--play as many as you can; buy the one you like the most. I think Intermediate models are generally a waste of money.
Jack: I suggest a temporary cease fire on this thread! But may The Bore War Continue!
Eric
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2011-10-08 15:26
Mstrampp1994 wrote:
> Also is $1000 a good price for a used Leblanc Opus?
Perhaps , but it depends on the condition of the instrument. If it has been recently repadded and is in good playing shape then this is a reasonable price. If it is in need of an overhaul then this might be a bit too much.
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Author: rmk54
Date: 2011-10-08 15:32
$1000 is a good price for a *good* Opus, but if it is a poor one you will have been taken advantage of. Please have someone that knows what they are doing test it out first.
You wouldn't buy a used car before having it checked out by an independent third party, no?
This recently happened to one of my students:
She is looking for a new professional grade instrument. I had her contact a well-known repairman that selects and sets up new instruments, a respected member of this board.
The instrument she was sent was just awful. I won't go into details, but I don't think any decent professional would have had trouble detecting the many shortcomings of this instrument. The student loved it, however.
The instrument was returned. This time student's mother then called the man herself, mentioned my name and how other students of mine had had great success with his instruments. She was sent a different instrument the next week. It's a beauty and I advised her to purchase it.
Enough said?
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2011-10-08 15:59
Mstrampp1994 wrote:
> Everyone here is talking about bore size, this idea is
> completly foreign to me. What kind of bore does my C100 have?
> What kind of bore should I aim for?
Unfortunately your thread was derailed by one of the classic arguments in the modern clarinet world. Essentially the issue is that some of the models I mentioned in my list of used clarinets I thought you should consider are older models that have a larger bore diameter than what is currently popular.
As for what style bore you should aim for, I think you should just pick the instrument that allows you to play your best and not worry about what bore size it has or which makers name is stamped on it.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2011-10-08 17:42
As a general principal, I don't like to see threads hijacked or participate in their hijacking (at least until they have exhausted their ability to satisfy the OP's request) so I will limit my comments to those that I think are relevant to Mackenzie, except to note that my general "rule of thumb" relates to age only and says nothing about design. My recommendation of "mainstream design" was directed specifically to Mackenzie (and others like her who have little experience with different designs and little experience and expertise in selecting clarinets and therefore have to rely to a greater extent on a seller's description and information and on chance to find a clarinet they'll be happy with. (Mackenzie, I apologize if I have your gender wrong. I'm going by the Ms... in your screen name and the fact that I've never known a guy with the first name Mackenzie. Please correct me if I'm wrong.)
Steve writes, "Older instruments can be less than ideal as they may not have intonation quite as good as newer models and it may be harder to find one in good condition." Exactly and this is why I recommend you exclude them from your search. The general consensus among serious players is that intonation is the most important factor in selecting a clarinet. (In fact, some will say it's the top 5 or 10 factors.) Saying that "it may be harder to find [an older clarinet] in good condition is equivalent to saying that the probability (frequency) of clarinets in good condition is lower among older clarinets than it is among new ones. Actually, in my experience, it is much lower. If you are looking for a needle in a haystack, doesn't it make sense to select the haystack that has the greatest number of needles to begin with -- especially if you aren't quite sure what a needle looks like.
In my experience, the probability that a clarinet will have serious problems and need major repairs is directly related to the age of the instrument. Certainly the predictive function could be improved by adding other variables but the dominant factor is, IMO, age. The older a clarinet, the greater time it has had to suffer abuse (sit in a damp attic or cellar or a closet where the humidity changes frequently, be played by a smoker, be dropped, have keys bent by someone trying to adjust for a slight leak or problem key). The older a clarinet, the more likely it will have had time to develop nagging little problems that aren't necessarily apparent to someone who isn't looking for them, e.g., keys that are slightly loose or chipped tone holes. No matter how good an old clarinet may look, you don't know where it's been or what it's gotten into. A good repair tech like Vytas can fix these problems. But make sure you have a good repair tech. An amateur hack can oil and polish a clarinet's wood and keys, slap on Valentino pads so they seal well, and put on new corks so that the clarinet looks like new and prehaps even plays decently for a time but, again in my experience, the older a clarinet, the greater the likelihood that it will not "hold" an overhaul for an appreciable period of time.
The other thing is, the older a clarinet, the older its technology. Right now, Mackenzie, you appear to know very little about clarinet technology. But if you keep playing, you will learn. Do you want to buy and, with repairs, spend several hundred dollars now for a clarinet you feel you've outgrown and need to replace in three years? Can you find an old clarinet that you will fall in love with and that will last you forever? Yes. But IMO the odds are that the newer the instrument you can buy, the greater is the likelihood that you will be happy with it for a long time to come -- particularly if you become a good player.
My reason for recommending a mainstream design to you, Mackenzie is simply that the design is "mainstream" for a reason -- it is the design preferred by most modern players because it works best for them. Odds are then that it will work best for you. Might you be happy with something completely different? Perhaps. But the odds going in favor a newer instrument of a design that most modern players prefer.
Here's what I recommend you focus on. I think you can be happy with any of these clarinets. I think you can grow with any of these instruments and won't find them a hindrance to your progress. They should take you through high school and, if your goal is to play in a college band or orchestra, should be more than adequate. I also think you could start just about any music program with them, though you would probably want to upgrade eventually if you find yourself in a strong performance program. I also think you have a reasonable chance of finding them, though some may prove to be outside your price range:
Buffet R13 made in 1990 or later (older is OK if in near-mint condition)
Yamaha CS, CX, CSV, SEV, 650. (I'm partial to Yamahas. I think they provide the best value for the dollar so, even though it goes outside my rule-of-thumb age range, I would consider a 72, 72CS or 82 if its in great condition.)
Leblanc Concerto, Concerto II, Opus, Opus II. (A Sonata can also take you a long way.)
Selmer: Series 10 or 10G (though this can take you outside my age range) or any professional Selmer clarinet made subsequent to the Series 10)
Mackenzie, you ask if $1,000 is a good price for a used Opus. I would say, yes, if it's in good condition. I see that the two Opus IIs that recently sold on eBay both brought $1,700. My recollection is that there really wasn't much change in design from the Opus to the Opus II.
As for my other recommendations. The Buffets are probably out of your price range. You might get lucky and find one for $1,100 - $1,200 if you are willing to be patient. It might take awhile for one to turn up.
You should be able to find one of the Yamahas near or below your price limit. Several years ago, in two separate purchases, I bought a pair (Bb and A) of Yamaha CSs for a total of $1,200 on eBay. Both were in excellent condition.)
The ConcertoII and OpusII models appear to be outside your range. Though I think the recent prices may have been a little high for eBay. Neither appears to have been a traditional auction. The older models should be pretty close to your range. If you have a line on an Opus in good condition for $1,000, I would recommend you give it a very good look.
I see Selmer Series 10 and 10G clarinets selling on eBay mostly in the $500-600 range. These tend to be 30 years old and older -- outside my age range but I think this is the earliest model you are likely to be happy with and I think you may have a hard time finding a Signature (or Recital) within your price range.
BTW (I forgot to mention this), if you have a teacher, absolutely get him/her involved in your decision. Not only for the reasons rmk54 noted but also because teachers sometimes know of good instruments that are for sale.
Best regards,
jnk
Steve, your experience with the Edgware is quite different from mine. I reconditioned one for our secretary who had inherited it from her dad. IMO, it was a piece of junk -- flimsy keys, and a barrel and bell that appeared to be coated with some sort of plastic laminate. I don't have experience with higher end Boosey and Hawkes clarinets but I suspect that saying the one I worked on is similar to a professional model B&H is sort of like saying an E11 (or Evette) is similar to an R13 -- only less so. Again, IMO, there is a very good reason Edgwares bring less than $100 on eBay and it isn't buyer ignorance.
Post Edited (2011-10-08 17:50)
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2011-10-08 18:49
Jack Kissinger wrote:
> Steve, your experience with the Edgware is quite different from
> mine. I reconditioned one for our secretary who had inherited
> it from her dad. IMO, it was a piece of junk -- flimsy keys,
> and a barrel and bell that appeared to be coated with some sort
> of plastic laminate. I don't have experience with higher end
> Boosey and Hawkes clarinets but I suspect that saying the one I
> worked on is similar to a professional model B&H is sort of
> like saying an E11 (or Evette) is similar to an R13 -- only
> less so. Again, IMO, there is a very good reason Edgwares
> bring less than $100 on eBay and it isn't buyer ignorance.
>
Your mileage may vary. It's possible you had one of the later examples. B&H's quality slipped quite a bit in the later years from what I've seen and the Edgware model may have been pushed further down the model heirarcy by the introduction of the 2-20, 4-20, and 8-10 models.
My A clarinet is an Edgware and is a well built instrument and a good player. I also have a couple of 2-20's (one step above the Edgware) in Bb that are very nice instruments. Originally they were all marketed as intermediate models but if time is taken during and overhaul to correct some of the shortcuts B&H took at the factory (installing pads with Evo-stik, no tonehole undercutting, etc.) they can easily play at a level above their original station. If you check some of the older threads on this board you will see that I'm not the only one who thinks this either.
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2011-10-08 20:08
Mackenzie, the Selmer CL100 has a 0.577-inch bore of a cylindrical design.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2011-10-08 23:50
Probably about the same. FYI, bore sizes are typically given in millimeters rather than inches. .577" converts to around 14.66 mm. Here's a little information you might be interested in for comparison. The measurements look pretty accurate to me.
http://www.clarinetpages.net/stuff-phil-recommends/bore-sizes
The "Leblanc" clarinets mentioned are most likely the Opus, Concerto, Sonata and, perhaps, Esprit models.
Best regards,
jnk
Post Edited (2011-10-08 23:56)
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Author: Clarnetamaphone
Date: 2013-02-08 19:03
SteveG_CT wrote:
One thing you may want to consider is getting a Ridenour 576BC. They sell new for <$1000 and are designed and personally setup by Tom Ridenour (the same guy who designed the Leblanc Opus and Sonata). http://www.ridenourclarinetproducts.com/Bbclarpg.html
Wow, I just read his grenadilla myth story. Steve have you tried this clarinet? Is Hard rubber really better than wood?
David Blumberg responded:
A myth within another myth.
David,
It is empirically true I designed the acoustic of the Opus/Concerto/Sonata when I was at Leblanc.
It is empirically true that I sell clarinets I set up and hand tune for under $1000.00.
It is true that many clarinet players have found that hard rubber clarinets, well designed, have many playing advantages over wood clarinets.
I'm trying to understand your remark.
Where is the myth?
Ridenour Clarinet Products
1-888-AKUSTIK
ridenourclarinetproducts.com
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2013-02-08 19:16
Tom, it wasn't a cut, it was bringing back the argument of materials, which some call a myth. So saying that hard rubber is better (feel, sound), would be agreeing that there is truth to the materials argument.
Of course hard rubber has advantages to wood for durability, as it doesn't crack from lack of humidity, affected by, etc.
I'm a firm believer that materials do make a difference in response, and tone. The dimensions are still paramount - and make the biggest difference for everything. Then there's the subtleties, which to me the material does make a big difference. For instance, I love the look of snake wood, but not the sound at all. When I first played the Cocobolo Wood, I didn't really like the non uniform black with metal rings look, but it wasn't about look, it was about sound.
I of course did get used to it, but if looks were a deciding factor, I wouldn't have gone in that direction.
And in other discussions, I have written that your Clarinets are a best buy for the $.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Buster
Date: 2013-02-09 04:33
After such subterfuge, I'd be surprised to receive a reply from that 2 year stale inquiry; much seemed to have been offered without substance on our end.
Though, the 2011 o.p.'s question was quite incapable of receiving an answer in this forum.
-Jason
Post Edited (2013-02-09 04:41)
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Author: Buster
Date: 2013-02-09 04:40
That stated,
Mr. Ridenour,
I'm curious why you now offer a model of your instrument in both ebonite and grenadilla.
I admittedly have not had the fortune to audition either, but in lieu of "The Grenadilla Myth", I'm curious why you now choose to offer a wooden instrument
Thanks in advance,
-Jason
Post Edited (2013-02-09 18:02)
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Author: Clarnetamaphone
Date: 2013-02-12 15:43
Buster,
I don't really think this is the forum to talk about the decisions i've made regarding my business; if your interested in this feel free to contact me at my email address
sales@ridenourclarinetproducts.com
David,
I appreciate the kind words. Just a misunderstanding.....sorry.
Ridenour Clarinet Products
1-888-AKUSTIK
ridenourclarinetproducts.com
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Author: Clarnetamaphone
Date: 2013-02-15 17:25
Well..........if this is not the appropriate place I apologize but I would rather put this to rest than let people draw their own conclusion as to what I was saying.
Due to the time Tom spent at Leblanc their are quite a few clarinetists that very much like his acoustical designs but for whatever reason, aren't willing to try non wooden clarinets. While we believe in the merits of hard rubber; WE ARE RUNNING A BUSINESS.......and that means we are trying to satisfy customers, not ourselves. Thats what I meant when I said it was a business decision.
Ted Ridenour
Ridenour Clarinet Products
Ridenour Clarinet Products
1-888-AKUSTIK
ridenourclarinetproducts.com
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