 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: mevans
Date: 2011-10-02 19:41
I'm posting this as a complete clarinet ignoramus buying a clarinet for his child.
I bought a used chinese "Musikwerks" clarinet from a small Long Island music shop a few days ago. After some finagling, I was able to get an 4 day inspection period, during which I could return the clarinet.
The shop owner stipulated, as he was drawing up the receipt, that he would not be able to take the no-name mouthpiece back, because of "state law" forbidding it's return. I agreed to this because I hoped not to be returning the clarinet, and quiet frankly, I was tired out from his high-pressure sales tactics.
I have decided to return the clarinet. While I have had no-one play it, those I have had look at the instrument deemed it serviceable but overpriced. Also, the owner misrepresented his standing with the BBB, and in retrospect, I realized I had gotten the classic bait and switch, being shown the Yamaha clarinet in poor condition that he had originally advertised on craigslist, only to be sold a used "Musikwerks" in better condition.
It's only a matter of $15 dollars, but as I look online, I don't see other retailers refusing returns on mouthpieces. Considering he was selling used clarinet pieces (the one he sold me he claimed was new), I'm beginning to think I was sold a bill of goods on not being able to accept a return on the mouthpiece.
Should I insist on a refund for the mouthpiece?
And finally, any leads on honest, low-key sellers of clarinets in the New York City area would be greatly appreciated : )
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2011-10-02 20:05
If you were told before purchase that the mouthpiece would not be returnable then you probably don't have much of a leg to stand on as far as demanding a refund. At least it was only $15.
If you are looking for an instrument for a new student it would help if you can give us an idea of what your budget is? You can get a good used student clarinet (Vito, Selmer, or Yamaha) from Clarinuts.com (one of the advertisers here) for $175-$250. These instruments have all be serviced and are in perfect playing condition, which is the most important thing for a new student. The last thing you want is for a new student to be fighting with a malfunctioning instrument.
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Author: mevans
Date: 2011-10-02 20:15
I'm sure he has the legal upper hand at first glance, but I'm wondering if his stipulation that the mouthpiece could not be returned is standard practice, required by law, as he stipulated, or if he pulled a fast one on me by getting me to agree to it.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2011-10-02 23:37
I'm not a lawyer and I'm certainly no expert on New York state law. Given that I have tried and returned mouthpieces to Weiner Music, a reputable dealer in NYC, and that Weiner accepts mouthpiece returns as standard practice, I have to believe that this dealer's claim regarding "state law" is a load of ... horse hockey.
In any case, given the bait-and-switch, I wouldn't hesitate to report the shop to the Better Business Bureau (after I had my money back). And next time you encounter high-pressure sales techniques that appear unethical, run, don't walk, away.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2011-10-02 23:46
Lawyer's Hat <ON>
I know of no New York state law forbidding the return of a unplayed mouthpiece (or a played one for that matter). Musical instrument dealers routinely clean returned rental clarinets, including the mouthpieces, with disinfectant and rent them out again.
The dealer's untrue statement was therefore fraudulent, as well as, in the case of an unplayed mouthpiece, commercially unreasonable.
However, going after him even in Small Claims Court will cost you more than the $15 you're out. On the other hand, a business must be represented by an attorney in SCC, while you can represent yourself, so it will cost the dealer more than the $15 to defend the case. So he'll probably default. But you'll have a judgment with no way to enforce it, etc., etc.
Lawyer's Hat <OFF>
So -- chalk it up to experience. One aggravation only gets worse when you add a second one.
You're lucky you returned the Musikwerks "clarinet." It's undoubtedly one of the pieces of junk we call CSOs (Clarinet Shaped Objects). Your daughter would have been fighting it constantly.
In my opinion, you should buy her only one of the "Big 4" brands: Buffet, Bundy (Selmer), Vito (Leblanc) or Yamaha. These will be durable, good quality and, very important, repairable (unlike a CSO).
To your daughter: Welcome to the best instrument there is. You can come here whenever you need information or advice.
Ken Shaw
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Author: gwie
Date: 2011-10-03 00:35
Tell that scumbag to give you your money back.
I tell the parents of my students that if they run into this situation, to use the "magic word:"
NOW.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2011-10-03 07:58
Well I have run into a fairly reputable store in the Atlanta area that refused to take back a reputable brand of mouthpiece. I no longer shop at that store.
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: kdk
Date: 2011-10-03 16:01
mevans wrote:
>
> The shop owner stipulated, as he was drawing up the receipt,
> that he would not be able to take the no-name mouthpiece back,
> because of "state law" forbidding it's return.
Baloney! If that were the case there are hundreds of reputable instrument dealers (including every one that rents instruments to students in school music programs) who are flagrantly breaking the law.
Karl
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Author: mevans
Date: 2011-10-03 22:05
@DB -- I'm from Queens, we just get upset and contact the Better Business Bureau. I'm having an awful time getting in touch with the guy to arrange the return. I'll keep you all posted.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2011-10-03 22:33
"I'm having an awful time getting in touch with the guy to arrange the return."
That was my concern. Did you pay by credit card?
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2011-10-04 16:57
If you paid by card, immeditely inform the store and thell the card company you want the entire charge reversed, as it was a case of bait-and-switch, as well as fraud. If the retailer gives you a hard time, threaten to picket his store every weekend until the sun goes cold. He will get the message. It is better (and cheaper) by far for him to eat the $15 he could have stolen from you, rather than to risk the bad publicity.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: mevans
Date: 2011-10-04 21:35
Update:
I returned the clarinet, and got a full refund, including for the mouthpiece.
It took me yelling over the phone and the mention of this bulletin board, but I got all my money back.
I did pay by credit card, so I always had the option to dispute the charge that way, but that would have meant meant more aggravation and uncertainty.
The guy was a hustler to the end, offering to refund me half my money (I paid $169), which he claimed was selling it to me at cost. All that did was make me realize how badly I had been ripped off to begin with.
Thanks to everyone for your advice and encouragement. It really made a difference. I felt I was in the right.
Thanks guys.
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