The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: JPMarcellus2011
Date: 2011-10-01 18:18
My goal is to play my scales with sixteenth notes at quarter note = 180. It should essentially sound like a flourish, but I want complete control over them, so I want to be able to do every tempo below that as well. After years and years of practice, as soon as I begin to pass MM = 108, things become uneven and very tense. I feel like I've tried everything: very slow practice, rhythms, grouping the notes, accents on downbeats, starting at a snail's pace and bumping up by 1 with each controlled repetition, a combination of those, and I have been unable to reach my goal. I don't mind putting in the work, in whatever regard, but I also want to be practical time-wise; about an hour a day working on scales would be a good amount of time. I usually do things from memory, but I'm not against reading from Baermann III or Langenus or whatever.
I appreciate any and all help, no matter how basic,
Thank you,
JPM
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Katrina
Date: 2011-10-01 18:20
At some speeds it's not actually your fingers that need work, it's your brain. If you can hear the subdivisions (in your head) at a given speed, it's easier to play them at that speed. Maybe this is part of your challenge?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2011-10-01 18:43
180 Is a lofty goal. I don't think there is a short cut, evey person is limited by their physical ability, that's why one person can run a 4 minute mile and another can't do it in 8 no matter how hard they train. The only way I can advise you to get there is to concentrate, use a metronome and perfect them at one tempo before pushing to the next. 108, 112, 116, 120 etc. Don't forget too, it's a lot more difficult to pay Db major at a fast even tempo evenly than it is to play Bb major. I would also suggest doing them like the Albert Scales before extending them to the Baermann scales because you need to first perfect the basic register before extending them out. There is no short cut to good technique as long as your finger and hand position are in good form as well. Keeping fingers close to the keys helps as well as not having any stress on your wrist, thumb or hand.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: EEBaum
Date: 2011-10-01 19:29
I think an hour a day may be overkill. With much practice, often consistency and frequency can be more effective than brute-force quantity. Diminishing returns kick in pretty fast.
Much of it is indeed mental. Chunking, grouping, and having a solid internal notion of where each note is going and where each group of notes is going can give a lot of mileage.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdk
Date: 2011-10-02 00:54
JPMarcellus2011 wrote:
> about an hour a day working on scales would be a good amount of
> time. I usually do things from memory, but I'm not against
> reading from Baermann III or Langenus or whatever.
>
Beyond the hour on scales, how much time will you put into practicing other materials and skills?
Karl
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2011-10-02 02:28
With the name Marcellus you should already know!!! Bob Marcellus was a very famous clarinetist with the Cleveland Orchestra and an excellent teacher as well. Anyway your name cracked me up.
I would start VERY slowy, perhaps 72 = quarter notes. As usual it probably is best to start with the easier keys. When you can play the scales at or around 72 about 5 times without a mistake, move up your metronome up a few spaces. Repeat the same way. This may sound like it will take years to master and you are pretty much right. Don't get hung up on perfect smoothness, in fact break it up a bit, such as an 8th then 2 16ths as well as other types of rhythms. With the easier scales I think 148 or so is a pretty fair goal to hit. Take a few months to reach it or pass it. I think only Marcellus could perhaps hit 180.
If you start off your daily practice with assorted scales, the music you are practicing should flow a lot better. Keep us posted on how things are going.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2011-10-05 02:33)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JPMarcellus2011
Date: 2011-10-02 04:09
Karl,
I am a conservatory graduate student, so I am fortunate enough and have the energy to practice for 4-6 hours daily. Thanks for the help, everyone!
JPM
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bethmhil
Date: 2011-10-02 05:10
Wow, you sound just like me when I go on upset-clarinetist-cramming-and-getting-angry practice sessions. I once considered the life of being a strictly performing clarinetist, and I think I would pull my hair out if I chose that path. Kudos to you for having that kind of drive.
One step in solving your predicament is one important concept: Feeling the connections between notes...
The most important part of scales (and really, any type of Baermann study or etude) is not and should not ever be speed. That will come with (much) time. Being able to feel every connection between every note is what makes learning scales so fundamental and vital. Feeling the connections between notes requires quite a slow tempo, you can imagine... and, it also requires intense concentration. But this way, your muscles and brain will "feel" the notes and connections much more clearly. I learned the Baermann scales in 3rds this last summer, and worked them up to eighth-note = 120 (quarter = 60... so slow, I know). Now, when I encounter any technical passage in band or orchestra music that is some scale ascending or descending in 3rds, it's tremendously easy to work through. Remember, we learn scales and fundamentals for this reason: not so that we can just play scales all the time, because that's terribly boring. We learn them because they will help us play everything else better!
Now, the next step requires much more than just "woodshedding"...
One thing I want to bring to your attention is that you said that you have practiced scales with many different rhythms/articulations/ways of accenting different notes of the scale. This works... to an extent. There will come a time when your fingers and your brain know what to do, but you still aren't getting the evenness that you desire... the unbelievably frustrating state I have been in for well over a year, and will still be in for a very long time.
This is only me philosophizing... Say you're playing a scale in 16ths, and either articulating every downbeat, or finding some way to emphasize downbeats. It would make sense that energy is only going into the first two notes, and then the energy fades in the 2nd two notes because there could be some natural decrescendo or just a feeling of relaxing, which leads to a decrease or change in the flow of energy through the line. This could lead to possible issues between connections of notes, and thus leading to unevenness. Playing with all the different accents and downbeats, etc. is, to me, a very "vertical" way of playing. In most cases, playing music "vertically" is very rarely a positive way of playing. There is one natural remedy: feeling and playing the scale as one melodic line. Set a metronome at maybe quarter = 40ish, and play 16 notes per beat. It's difficult to keep track of where the beat should fall, but that is one thing that pushes energy through the entire line. Playing the scale as a long line is much more "horizontal", and it will push energy through the whole line, and thus every connection. Think of it this way... when a conductor is conducting in a fast 4, he may decide to conduct in 2 instead because thinking of the melodic line in 2 pushes much more energy through the line. It works the same way for anything, even scales!
As my teacher once said, "Any idiot can learn to play scales fast."
Speed & evenness will come with time, I promise.
BMH
Illinois State University, BME and BM Performance
Post Edited (2011-10-06 01:44)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: sonicbang
Date: 2011-10-02 13:53
You should practise things like Jeanjean's Vade Meacum and/or Opperman's Modern Daily Studies, especially the 1st volume. Those excercises are meant to optimize your finger technique with reducing useless finger motion. In such a crazy tempo you try to reach, every milimeter in your finger movement counts multiple.
I also suggest to play the 10 etudes by Bozza, and 20 etudes by Perier. They are not so hard but when you try to reach the original tempo, you will suddenly notice certain errors in your plying, and you can work on them with the method books mentioned above. Quality first, then quantity.
Good luck!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2011-10-02 18:09
JPM -
In the middle ages, when you became a carpenter's apprentice the first thing you did was make your own tools, which you would use for the rest of your life.
As an aspiring clarinetist, you must do the same. That means that you must "engrave" all possible scales, arpeggios and other basic patterns in your muscle memory, so that you use them by instinct as necessary. These are the tools of your trade. There's no short cut, and every professional player has done it.
For this purpose, slow playing is actually better than fast. Accuracy is what counts. If you allow even one mistake, what you're doing is teaching your fingers to make mistakes. You keep the Baermann III book on your music stand and give it your very best time -- the first 20 minutes of each practice session, or as long as you can hold total concentration.
For scales and pattern exercises that you don't know, set the metronome at 40 and play one note per beat until your fingers know the sequences of movements. NEVER PLAY FASTER THAN PERFECT.
Use the method described in this wonderful article on Fernand Gillet, the great principal oboist of the Boston Symphony and a celebrated teacher. http://www.joearmstrong.info/GILLET21rtf.htm
See also http://www.osbornmusic.com/Technique1.pdf.
And http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=269841&t=269698
You do the same with difficult passages in the clarinet repertoire -- Daphnis and Chloe, Midsummer Night's Dream, The Firebird Suite, The Miraculous Mandarin and so on. To have any chance of winning an audition, you must be able to play these perfectly, every time.
It's a long and winding road, but we all travel it.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JPMarcellus2011
Date: 2011-10-03 13:58
That Gillet set of exercises seems very interesting. I've ordered the clarinet version of the book. Thanks!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: salzo
Date: 2011-10-03 17:17
Personally, I find practicing the "fast" elements of technique slowly, not only a waste of time, but detrimental to ones technique.
To play fast cleanly is about efficiency, whether it is fingers or tonguing. THe reason for sloppy uneven playing is due to inefficiency, and excessiveness.
Need to play them at 180, then practice at 180.
But do very small pieces, and then add on those small pieces only after you feel confident with the piece that you are working on.
You cant climb to the top of a mountain without taking one step at a time. Make sure each step is secure before taking the next step.
How "small" should you start? Whatever you can play comfortably and confidently-after establishing how easy hat piece is, study and decide how much you can add-again whatever you decide to add, you have to make sure that you can play it, and play it correctly the first time- continue doing this until you get to the end.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: CarlT
Date: 2011-10-03 20:45
Salzo said, "Personally, I find practicing the "fast" elements of technique slowly, not only a waste of time, but detrimental to ones technique."
I looked up a bunch of different sources that Ken Shaw and others referred to, and one thing all had in common was start slowly until perfected then move up a bit at a time.
Question for Salzo: Is this just what works for you, or can you provide any sources of your own that substantiates your argument? I'm not trying to be difficult...just want to get as much info on the subject as I can.
CarlT
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2011-10-03 22:00
If you look in detail at what practising 'small elements' fast amounts to, I think you may well be surprised.
How small do we want to go? Well, 'one note' clearly can't be practised fast.
Nor can 'two notes'.
But 'three notes' can; because if played fast, the third note needs to occur very soon after the appearance of the second.
But, that doesn't mean that the finger movements involved are necessarily fast.
It's not a coincidence that 'my exercise' is a three note exercise:-)
Tony
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: salzo
Date: 2011-10-04 03:00
CarlT,
The only source I have is myself, and my students who also practice in this manner.
EVERYBODY says to practice slow and then build up the tempo- I am not saying that does not work. I just think it takes a lot longer, and fast and small is better because you are always playing exaclty the way the music is intended, and the technique required is ALWAYS the same.
Im agine the inefficiency that can be created when practicing slow, and envision how the technique can be different at different speeds.
Say you are playing a passage that is supposed to be at 120, at 60. Playing it at sixty, you can raise your fingers much higher than at 120. YOu can have sloppy finger motion, yet still arrive at the next note at the correct time. As you increase the speed, you have to bring your fingers closer to the instrument, and any sloppy technical aspects of the finger motion will have to be corrected. So practicing it slow does not help with the sloppy fingers-if anything it allows you to continue to play in a sloppy manner, which means you have to "fix" the problem. It takes much more work to have to fix things, rather than just playing it correctly from the beginning.
Practicing fast and small does not allow you the time to do things wrong.
THe same is especially true with tonguing. I do not practice fast articulated passages slowly, I practice them at tempo, in small pieces. Often just practicing the very first not of a rapidly articulated passage results in the entire passage being played cleanly.
All I can say is try it yourself-if it works great, if not, I am sure you will learn something while trying it.
TOny Pay- 2 notes can be practiced fast. YOu have to make sure they are at the correct tempo. When I do it, I play the first two notes, and finish the beat plus one note in my head.
Post Edited (2011-10-04 03:03)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2011-10-04 23:34
Salzo wrote:
>> Tony Pay - 2 notes can be practiced fast. You have to make sure they are at the correct tempo. When I do it, I play the first two notes, and finish the beat plus one note in my head.>>
In that bit I was only pointing out something that I've found it useful myself to realise: namely, that playing say a demisemiquaver F followed by a demisemiquaver E involves nothing necessarily different from playing a minim F followed by a minim E -- at least as far as finger movements are concerned. And that's true for ANY two notes.
It's true, as you say, that if more notes are involved, then different finger movements -- say, fingers closer to the holes -- may be required. But that's what *I* said, too. The crucial thing is that it depends on the actual notes in the passage. Sometimes we may not need to worry, and may use larger finger movements -- as in my example of the one octave F major scale.
Tony
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
|