 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: CocoboloKid
Date: 2011-02-01 22:16
Your conductor is extremely ill-informed. The Buffet E11, until quite recently, has always been made in Germany, by Schreiber.
The new E11 is made in France, and is now called the "E11 France".
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Author: BrianChau
Date: 2011-02-02 00:22
How about the Buffet E11-A horns? Did they used to make them in Germany as well?
Brian
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-02-02 00:23
Yeah - Schreiber built the E11 A clarinets for Buffet as well.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2011-02-02 00:24)
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Author: gsurosey
Date: 2011-02-02 18:17
Is the conductor you're talking about at Geneseo? If it's Dr. Walker, I'd think he would know what he was talking about (I went there 1998-2003).
Rachel
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Author: Desert Dweller
Date: 2011-09-30 15:04
Can someone tell me if the E11 France is a good instrument.
As a private instructor, I usually have my high-school students upgrade to an R13, but with the current economic situation people are short of money, so I am looking for a good viable option. I remember trying the E11 in Oklahoma a couple of years ago and wasn't impressed, but it was a "quick" try in a unrealistic environment. Suggestions/comments are appreciated.
Loretta Krein
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2011-09-30 15:24
Desert Dweller wrote:
> Can someone tell me if the E11 France is a good instrument.
> As a private instructor, I usually have my high-school students
> upgrade to an R13, but with the current economic situation
> people are short of money, so I am looking for a good viable
> option. I remember trying the E11 in Oklahoma a couple of
> years ago and wasn't impressed, but it was a "quick" try in a
> unrealistic environment. Suggestions/comments are appreciated.
>
The Buffet E-11 is a decent instrument but a horrible value in my opinion. Here in the US you can buy the Yamaha YCL-650 (Yamaha's entry level professional clarinet) for pretty much the same price as the E-11 ($1517 vs. $1495 based on published prices) and it is a much better instrument.
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2011-09-30 16:11
I echo SteveG's observations. One of my section mates has a YCL-650 and it's a lovely clarinet. The quality of the wood is among the best I've ever seen, the keywork is very comfortable, the whole thing is assembled with meticulous precision, and there's a refinement about the way the horn responds that's a delight to experience.
I haven't tried the new E11 France and can't comment on it, but for about the same money one can get a proven winner in the YCL-650.
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Author: sbrodt54
Date: 2011-09-30 21:56
When someone comes in to play semi pro clarinets I will always place the Buffet, Selmer, Yamaha, Leblanc (whatever is available at that time) models in front of the player and allow them to play as long as they wish. Not everyone will agree on the Yamaha being the best clarinet in that price range. The Buffet E-11 "France" model and the Buffet E-11 with keys made in China are both popular, more popular than the Yamaha. Yamaha makes a terrific clarinet but the tone quality and the resistance is quite different from Buffet to Yamaha.
To each his own, I have played them all at length and I would choose the E-11 France myself.
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2011-09-30 23:00
I have encountered entirely too many players who have made up their minds to buy Buffet before even heading to the store and refuse to even consider other brands. I have played several E-11's and while I feel they are good instruments I think they are probably overpriced by a few hundred dollars due to the "halo effect" from Buffet's pro models.
Personally I think the YCL-650 is both a better playing instrument and a better value.
Other options to consider if price is a major concern would be the Ridenour 576BC, Leblanc Bliss, and Selmer CL211.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2011-09-30 23:06
Scott, just to be clear are you giving your customers the YCL-650 or the YCL-450 to try? Also, I assume the customers know which brand they are playing. Could Buffet's reputation account for some of the choices? I'm not arguing that the E11 is not a good clarinet. But it's a student model and the YCL-650 is an entry-level professional model, designed to compete with the R13.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: sbrodt54
Date: 2011-10-01 01:18
Jack,
If I hear semipro as the starting point I will always throw in a pro or two just because I know every player wants to play an R13 or Selmer Arthea, Yamaha CSV or Symphonie. This mix will also include the Yamaha 450 and 650, Bliss, and what ever else in that range I have. Some of the kids will bring along their teacher and work with them until they have a clarinet they both enjoy.
I can only tell you that the Buffet E11s (German, French....) are by far the most popular clarinets in that range of price. Yes, kids do come in with the name Buffet, Bach, Schilke, or Yamaha tattooed on their forehead and will never buy anything else BUT that brand (whether it's better or not) but I will never push one brand over the other. The kids come and play everything, then they choose.
I never tell the kids the prices either, only after they have played for a while will I disclose the prices to the kids, the parents always know the prices before we start.
While the Yamaha 650 is under the title of pro clarinet, I have never sold a 650 when it competed directly with an R13. The end price of the 650 is about half of an R13 so it mostly competes with the Bliss, Leblanc 1020 (discontinued) and the Buffet E11, 12, 13s when they were all available.
Scott Brodt
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2011-10-01 05:50
I tried a few of E11 France clarinets when they first came out and thought they sounded pretty nice but had the throat A key too far from the first ring key (especially would be an issue for a young kid). I tried them again a year later and don't remember finding this problem when I looked for it, so either they fixed it or it was my imagination the first time.
I recently had an E11 France to check more thoroughly. It was only a few months old with minimal use. It had these issues:
- Falling corks and felts.
- Corks and felts glued poorly i.e. half glued to the key, not where they should be.
- Materials that create a spongy feel to the keys.
- Huge double action for left hand F/C lever.
- Several ruined pads after just a few months (torn skin or felt falling off compeltely).
- Awful binding of all the tenons. Not the "usual" wood swelling and changing between areas, but much worse, actualy worst I've ever seen. Tenon diameters much bigger than socket diameters. Looked like a major flaw missed in QC since there is no way anyone ever assembled those clarinet tenons all the way.
- Much worse post mounting system than available on significantly cheaper models.
- etc.
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Author: trebleclef
Date: 2011-10-01 20:38
it is really sad that only after a few months the clarinet needs an overhaul, especially considering the price which one has to pay for such a clarinet. I really hope that this is not representative of Buffet quality on their student models. I have only been playing a plastic Jupiter (631II) now for over 18 months and apart from one screw coming loose the clarinet has had no problems and is still going strong. For beginners I can really recommend this clarinet. It plays perfectly in tune and has a lovely (for a plastic clarinet) warm tone. Even has undercut tone holes and the even the right hand keys are recessed like a pro clarinet. The only thing is that it is built in China and not in France or Germany. I suppose the ethics of that are another topic.
Post Edited (2011-10-01 20:42)
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Author: jvaruzzo
Date: 2011-11-17 13:16
I just stumbled upon this post, and do not wish to reopen a thread that has been inactive for over a month, but I found it to be a good thread regarding Buffet clarinets.
I manage a retail and online store, and I too will encourage any student coming in looking at a Buffet (or Yamaha, Conn-Selmer, etc) to try them all.
With our pricing structure with the E11 France, the YCL-650 ends up being a few hundred more, however I do try to introduce it to the equation.
I have found that literally every single customer walks out without question choosing one over the other. Never does someone leave the practice room debating which clarinet they liked better.
Oddly, it's virtually split 50/50 as to which instrument the customer leaves with (Yamaha has a slight edge).
As a retailer who sold through many E11 Germany, E11 Frances, and the French E11 with Nickel keys, I will attest to the quality control problems Buffet seems to be experiencing, both with the E11 France which I've seen more than a few with joints that expand substantially to the point the instrument cannot be disassembled or reassembled.
We also received a large batch of E11 Nickels that after careful examination we found suffered from leaking tone holes (all of which were returned to Buffet).
I wrote an article regarding the difference between the E11 flavors. With all the models (the latest being the new 2011 E11 Germany after Buffet's acquisition of the Schreiber factory), customers are left very confused (as our educators, sales staff, etc).
I'm not sure it is kosher to post a link to my blog, but if anyone is interested in more information feel free to PM me or give me a call at 516-433-1107 ext. 106.
Thanks,
Justin Varuzzo
Hyson Music, INC
www.hysonmusic.com
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Author: Dharma
Date: 2011-11-17 23:01
Erm, can't work out how to PM on this forum...if you can figure out how to PM me, I'd love the link to your article...
Or mail me at <my user name>66 at gmail.
Many thanks
-----
A horse is drawn to water, but a pencil must be lead.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2011-11-17 23:52
> I'm not sure it is kosher to post a link to my blog
I if it has passed Socrates' sieve test, then the worst that can happen is that your post is deleted. :-)
--
Ben
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Author: jvaruzzo
Date: 2011-11-18 13:06
Ok, I will simply report the entry here, it's nothing that hasn't been covered already in this thread, but I think it's a good summary for perspective shoppers to better understand the E11 France, vs E11 Germany (new and old), vs the E11 w/ Nickel Keys made in France w/ Chinese parts. I get the question asked at least a few times a week:
http://www.hysonmusic.com/blog/the-buffet-e11-france-vs-buffet-e11-germany-vs-buffet-e11-%E2%80%9Cnickel%E2%80%9D/
[ Edited - GBK ]
Hope this was informational,
Justin Varuzzo
Vice-President
Hyson Music, INC
www.hysonmusic.com
*Please note, the opinions expressed in this post represent those of individual authors and unless clearly labeled as such do not represent the opinions or policies of Hyson Music, INC.
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Author: DaveKessler
Date: 2011-11-18 23:58
Justin,
Your blog post has an inaccuracy in it:
"A few years ago Schreiber went out of business, leaving Buffet without their most popular model clarinet, the E11 'Made in Germany'. In a panic Buffet rushed out two new models to replace the beloved E11."
This is not true. Buffet acquired the old Leblanc France factory from Conn-Selmer in 2009 after Conn-Selmer moved all production of the Leblanc clarinets to the USA. Buffet then moved their E11 production away from Schreiber-Keilwerth in Germany. They continued to use Schreiber-Keilwerth to produce B10 and B12 models as well as the Buffet student & intermediate oboes.
I posted a full detail of the events in the comments of your blog post. Feel free to email me if you have any questions or would like to see the information to back it up.
Personally, I am glad to see Buffet is producing a German made Bb E11 again but a little bummed that it cant be advertised for sale online. When you put on a great barrel (like a Buffet Chadash), they really are a great value instrument.
Dave Kessler
Kessler & Sons Music
http://www.kesslermusic.com
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