 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: LesleyM
Date: 2010-06-14 11:25
I have been playing a vandoren crystal mouthpiece for more than 25 years. I love it.
However, I need to get something similar and have just found out they don't make them any more!!!!
So does anyone know what would be a close equivalent to the Vandoren Crystal A1?
ta!
lesley.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-06-14 11:36
They were made for Vandoren by Pomarico, but you paid the considerable extra for the Vandoren name.
I think the nearest Pomarico equivalent is either the Nigun or Ruby - can't remember which one exactly.
The A1 crystal is my main mouthpiece - this is my second as I sold my last one which I regret doing.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: John Peacock
Date: 2010-06-14 22:06
I used one of these for 15 years (but A3, rather than A1). I liked the basic sound, but eventually switched away: it was too much hard work to make a focused pp sound, and also orchestral projection was limited.
One thing I found was they played rather flat, and I had to have a very short barrel (62mm) made for the A to be up to pitch. I remember being told that there was an error in the bore design.
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Author: bbarner
Date: 2010-06-15 11:49
According to the Pomerico website, the Ruby has a tip opening of 1.09 mm and a facing length of 18 mm. The measurements of the Vandoren Crystal A1, posted on the Clarinet BBoard in the past, are 1.10 and 18. So perrhaps the Ruby would be similar to your mouthpiece.
By the way, I've been playing a Vandoren Crystal A2 for at least 25 years. Don't know how many times someone has said to me, "I used to have a crystal mouthpiece, but I dropped it and it broke." I have no idea why I haven't broken mine in all these years.
Out of curiosity, I emailed Pomerico to ask which mouthpiece would be similar to my A2 and they recommended the Diamond model. The A2 measures 1.20 and 17 whereas the Diamond is 1.25 and 20.
Bill Barner
http://www.billbarner.com
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-06-15 12:42
Attachment: pomaricobassmpc 001.JPG (682k)
"Don't know how many times someone has said to me, "I used to have a crystal mouthpiece, but I dropped it and it broke." I have no idea why I haven't broken mine in all these years."
These things happen - only I caught the tip of my bass mouthpiece on a door catch rather than dropping it.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2010-06-15 12:44)
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2010-06-18 03:21
Word of caution, I've tried a few pomaricos, and I find they vary pretty widely. Get ready to try a LOT if you are looking for that 'perfect' one. Of the 10 or so that I've tried in the past few years, none of them were stellar. I settled on buying one that was pretty good, and having it refaced. And it's still not as good as my best mouthpiece on a zinner blank.
Alexi
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2010-06-21 14:13
You know, I tried the Pomarico crystal many, many years ago and not had much success. Since then I have had a GREAT deal of success with their ebony line. Now they have NEW facings on their BLACK CRYSTAL line.
Anyone have any good experience with these?
......................Paul Aviles
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2010-06-21 15:36
Paul, I would submit that a major issue with Pomarico mouthpieces, as with any mass-produced mouthpiece, is the consistency of the facing from sample-to-sample, regardless of the manufacturers' facing designations. So it really doesn't matter too much that Pomarico claims that their latest mouthpieces have new facings; what's more important is whether their "new and improved facing" is actually applied identically to each such mouthpiece they make.
Not even custom makers can make two mouthpieces with completely identical facings.
I'm not singling out Pomarico, I happen to like their mouthpieces, within reason --- but I nearly always have had to reface them to make the facings play acceptably for me (regardless of what number, gemstone color, or astronomical object the mouthpieces were identified by).
Like most of the old hands say, the best way to get a really good mouthpiece for yourself is to try as many as you can, and don't be overly influenced by the brand or model names or facing numbers on them.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2010-06-21 21:18
Dear David,
I am not trying to get into a pissing contest at all. However, I am willing to be open minded about a companies ability to surprise me.
In the '70s, Vandoren mouthpieces were "ok," but nothing to write home about. Lately, they have become VERY consistant and at least provide an earthly basis from which one can decide on much more expensive mouthpieces.
That said, the early Pomarico facings (and correlating production standards) of their crystals left much to be desired. The Ebony group, intoduced later seems to have ironed out some of the earlier inconsistances (at least in this line). I hope upon hope (being a closet crystal mouthpiece enthusiast) that this new production run will have better standards and consequently far better constancy from mouthpiece to mouthpiece as seen in the above Vandoren example.
I WILL eventually try some Black Crystals for myself when I have the time, but was hoping one of you current crystal mouthpiece users may have already had some hands on experience to share.
..................Paul Aviles
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Author: LesleyM
Date: 2011-09-29 13:53
Thanks all, I never expected to provoke such a debate.
I think i will continue to pamper my lovely old A1. We are good friends now and she looks aftre me. I have never found she plays flay or fails to project so maybe I fluked a good one? Who know. I chose her in a blindfold trial so we were just meant to be.
Shortly I have a whole new trial when I start playing soprano sax (yes, i know, sinner!!!) but as I have also been trialling plastic clari reeds then why not!
lesley
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Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2011-09-29 15:32
Does anyone know if the Pomarico German crystals fit French barrel sockets? My Fritz barrels aren't as big as the Herbert Wurlitzer barrels--I have to sand down mouthpiece tenons of modern German mps to fit them in--a job that would make testing crystal mps impossible unless they had smaller tenons to begin with.
Eric
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-09-29 15:34
Don't worry about being a sinner by straying onto saxes - most of us do and aren't ashamed to admit to it!
I used a Bari plastic reed with my first A1 to do a concert of wind ensemble music back in 1991 where the featured piece of the evening was Mozart's 'Gran Partita' as the 200th anniversary of his demise where I played 1st. I only showed the conductor (who was also my clarinet tutor and a well respected clarinettist at that) what I was playing on afterwards as I think he may have objected if I let him know beforehand. He did comment I did get progressively sharper over the entire evening, but most wind players do anyway.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: NBeaty
Date: 2011-09-29 15:52
Paul,
No pissing contest necessary. Here are numbers instead:
Out of the last half-dozen Vandoren 5RV Lyres I've worked on, their tips ranged from: 1.07-1.16. Oops?
M30's have been ranging from 1.12-1.16.
The new Masters series have been:
CL4- 1.06-1.10
CL5- 1.08-1.12
All measurements done with the same tools, so I'm disinclined to agree that vandorens' product is very consistent. It's possible they are better than before, but the older vandorens I've measured have looked to be more consistent...
Even with the same facing length and tip opening, the facing can be wildly different depending on the rest of the facing, rail width, etc.
-Nathan
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2011-09-30 01:06
I think crystal mouthpieces are molded from molten material, which changes shape as it cools and solidifies. Several mouthpiece makers have told me that crystal mouthpiece dimensions are all over the place. It's a matter of luck whether a comes out in a usable shape.
Furthermore, crystal is much harder than hard rubber and is difficult to abrade, with the constant hazard of chipping and cracking. Kal Opperman made a crystal mouthpiece for me, but said he didn't like to work on them because it was such a slow, tiring process and left glass dust floating round.
I suspect that Pomerico has a relatively low success rate and tosses many unusable mouthpieces back in the melting pot to try again.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2011-09-30 01:47
Pomarico also made the Mitchell Lurie Crystal and also his regular mouthpieces sold under Rico. Now that Mitchell is sadly no longer with us I'm not sure if pomarico is making them, or has total rights over his name. His wife was still living but in real bad shape, so I have a feeling she may have passed on as well. They had 3 kids so perhaps the royalities are still in the family.
They played well so check the prices and perhaps Mitchell's may be sightly less expensive, but made very close to the Vandorans.
Thats amazing you got 25 years out of a glass mouthpiece! Most of the time people drop them within a few years.
The good thing about dropping them is you don't have to bother to pick them up because they shatter all over the orchestra floor, making a lot of noise, mainly during the very soft PPP moments.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2011-09-30 07:26)
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2011-09-30 02:11
Gino Cioffi played a crystal mouthpiece "given to me by my poor dead father" for his entire career.
Alexander Williams played one in the NBC Symphony. He told me he stopped using it only because when he got older it took too much energy the play. He said that he played it for the nightingale solo in Toscanini's Pines of Rome.
Michele Gingras has played one for many years.
Marcellus played one for about a year in Cleveland, including in the Capriccio Italien, Capriccio Espagnol, Polovtsian Dances and Prelude from Kovanshchina. He said he liked it, but that one day George Szell asked him "Do you REALLY like the sound you get with that mouthpiece?" He took the hint and switched to a Kaspar.
Ken Shaw
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Author: LesleyM
Date: 2011-09-30 14:12
I have to confess I am a bit precious about my crystal. She was an investment when i bought her (seem to remember she was over £250!!) - well to be accurate, when my dad bought her for me. I'd be heartbroken if I broke her so she is treated like a fragile old relative. Mind you, I am stil playing on the same Selmer 10S's that i had at school (also over 25 yrs old). The Bflat is now showing her age and may need to be retired soon. We have a good music shop nearby who give good advice so i will be booking myself in there for a few hours to pick a new one when the time comes.
The plastic reds I am trialling (on Bflat and Eflat) are by Legere. They are pretty good. i only notice a difference when trying to hit really high notes and they let me down a little but generally I like the fact they play straight out fo the packet. On the Eflat it is a little more tricky and you need a bite like a rottweiller! But it is worth a bit of pain.
I will be getting a loaner sop sax tonight and have to buy a mouthpiece for it over the weekend. If thigs go well I'll be buying my own sax in a couple of months.
I like variety in music so i am looking forward to the challenge.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2011-10-01 05:07
I once forgot I put two crystal mouthpieces on my bed... I lied on the bed for a moment and then got up... not noticing I was kicking the two mouthpieces. They flew across the room with a loud glassy noise, heat the wall on the other side and stopped eventually. I went to look and... nothing happened to them! Not the slightest break or crack!
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2011-10-01 19:40
Old Vandoren A1s do very very occasionally appear on that website! but not as frequently as A2s. I did manage to find one a few years back as a backup to my 30+ year old one and from the original clear plastic case it came in I would put that one at 25-30 years or more also.
Fortunately it played very similarly to my original and in some ways is slightly better. It was not cheap though. I think I paid aroung £100 ($150) for it but it was worth it for peace of mind.
My original, bought in Paris cost FF140 or about £14 at the then exchange rate.
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Author: LesleyM
Date: 2011-10-03 14:59
Well, my life as a parttime saxophonist has begun. I got myself a nice mouthpiece (another blind trial - it works for me). Parted with more money than I care to admit to then had a go. it wasn't that bad. A bit or burbling at the bottom end but then again we all do that at some point (lol). The upper register was fine. Lovely and clear. I just have to master the different embouchure position and keep reminding myself it is not clarinet fingerings. But I have found that resorting to basics (scales and arpeggios) works as well as playing any music I know by heart. That way i can concentrate on playing not reading.
So i think this venture into sop land will be fun and a nice challenge (last year's challenge was to play the bassoon which i mastered to a pretty reasonable level, then it was the Eflat. Think i am becoming the go to person when there is an oddity to be played.)
Lx
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-10-03 17:39
Lesley, use plently of breath support on the lower register soprano sax as that will help the stability of the lower notes from E downwards and prevent bubbling/gurgling/burbling. And don't tighten your embouchure for the high notes as you would on clarinet as that will throw the tuning sharp.
The embouchure will remain fairly relaxed over the range on soprano although you may have to tighten up for the lower notes, so it's pretty much the opposite as what you'd do on clarinet (and much, much easier!).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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