 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ronish
Date: 2011-09-11 12:31
I`ve been searching all the old clarinet and sax postings on sore lips but nearly all talk of teeth cutting into the bottom lip thru` biting. But if biting is the problem then the pain should originate where the teeth contact the lip, that is a bit down, maybe 3mm from the top surface of the lip. And that is not where my pain is located.
My lip pain is on the top surface of my lip. The point of contact with the reed. The location where you would apply lipstick if you used it. I don`t roll my lip over my teeth and my lower teeth never contact the reed.
On the assumption that my lips don`t like cane, I`ve tried Legere but find the edges curl up a bit and even when sanded still seem sharp.
After playing two nights in a row I can`t bear even 10sec. reed contact the next day.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2011-09-11 14:42
Make sure the reed surface is smooth with no burrs or grain ends sticking up to irritate the lip surface. Use a piece of extra fine abrasive - maybe even plain paper - to polish the vamp surface. With an embouchure style of the kind you describe, you're putting a lot of stress on the lip itself, since (if I understand your description correctly) there's no support underneath it from your teeth. As a result, the top surface of your lip may be pressing into the reed more than that of a player using a more conventional - lip rolled over the teeth - embouchure and could be more sensitive to imperfections in the surface of the cane.
Karl
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Author: TianL
Date: 2011-09-11 19:16
i think one solution would be use ridenour's ATG method with a very light sandpaper (probably 500ish) for just a couple of times on the reed. that will make the top surface completely smooth.
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Author: Joseph Brenner, Jr.
Date: 2011-09-11 20:24
Perhaps you should consider a temporary switch to double lip or standard single lip embouchure and, perhaps, playing with your bell resting on your thigh.
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Author: Ronish
Date: 2011-09-11 21:34
Interesting. It never occurred to me to go double lip or just lower lip over teeth. I would have thought the teeth would have hurt the the lip more than just the squashing against the reed. I`ll try it. Thanks.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2011-09-11 22:13
Try using double lip. Also use a small piece of paper. It shouldn't effect your sound at all. I often play as long as 6 hours a day between practice, rehearsals, and actual concerts. Any type of paper should work and if it's thin paper you can double it. If your lip still gets cut double the paper again. I'm a firm believer in double lip practice, even if it's for a short time of practice. You have to build up the upper lip strength.
People may disagree with me but give it a try. Even though I play using a double lip, for me I can go about 3 hours before the lower lip hurts so bad I have to stop playing or use paper. I actually use OCB non stick cigarette paper. I bought a box in the '70's and have about 5 packs left. There are 150 papers per pack. A box has 24 packs, probably enough for the rest of your playing career.
R.J. Reynolds Tabacco Company, Winston-Salem, NC
I went to the dentist and he made a very soft cushion that is fitted perfectly to my lower teeth. People can't tell you have something on your teeth, but with paper people can sometimes tell. Frankly I really don't care!You can always try that dentist trick, but my lower lip still hurts when playing all of these hours
Before spending about $300 for that try paper first. If the paper splits while playing simply put another one on.
When I was at Interlochen in the early '70s' I was studying with the great Fred Ormand and I always wanted to make him happy and this is why I practiced for so many hours. Paper saved me! I enjoyed those days with Mr. Ormand.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2011-09-11 22:22)
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2011-09-12 16:18
kdk's advice is worth noting.
When I was experimenting with Forestone reeds last year, I noted that they were really smooth on my lower lip. Talking with my teacher, I learned that he polishes his cane reeds with 600 grit sandpaper.
I now do that, and the reed texture of the polished cane is equivalent to that of the plastic reeds.
(I also use a cap over my 4 lower incisors because they are misaligned and have aggressive biting surfaces. This is made like a clear plastic orthodontic retainer. The tech made a plaster mold of my lower teeth and then vacuum forms a bit of thin plastic over the mold and trims it to clear my gum line. They last for years and are not expensive.
Even though the cap is thin --about 1/2 mm thick-- I can tell the difference in embouchure "feel" if I forget to put it in when I start to play.)
Bob Phillips
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Author: Ronish
Date: 2011-09-12 21:32
I usually polish my reeds with v. fine emery paper but as I continue to use the reed I don`t anymore. Maybe the reed fibres come back up a bit on the surface.
I tried rolling lips over teeth and found:
a) Double lip produced 100% squeak
b) Single lip produced 50% sqeak.
Yes, I know practice would eliminate a lot of this but it felt so odd and awkward
and I don`t have all that much time left on my clock.
I think I will stick with lip and teeth on the same plane, try and modify my embouchure to take some pressure off them, give a quick emery wipe each session I use the clarinet, and apply a small amount of Bepathem (a nappy rash protector) to my bottom lip AND the contact area on the reed.
Thank you all for your replies.
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