 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: kny
Date: 2001-01-30 04:56
http://cgi.ebay.de/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1406658049
http://cgi.ebay.de/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1406762481
http://cgi.ebay.de/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1406763350
has anyone played these kind of instruments? How do they sound compared to the bohem clarinets?
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Author: ron b
Date: 2001-01-30 06:26
Yes, kny, I've played these kinds of horns. They're 'Simple Systems', not Alberts. The last one (1406763350) is a Mueller type simple system. I have one almost exactly like it, except mine is a Carl Fischer import.
The seller claims they're old, wood, with mouthpiece(s) and are ready to play. Old? hmmm - well, I don't think I hear any collectors out there scrambling to place their bids. Seller doesn't say *how* old. They're not antiques.
They're fun horns to play. They (similar ones I've played) sound like clarinets.
ron b
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Author: Sam
Date: 2001-01-31 02:35
The albert system is just another type of clarinet, just there are the bohem system and german bohem system. The albert system itself is simpler than the bohem but you essentially get the same clarinet sound. Different geographical areas of the world tend to use a specific system.
One can often hear recordings of musicians playing the albert system clarinets on very early jazz recordings (1890 - 1930) Don't judge the clarinet type based on the tone you hear, that is the player. This type of early jazz clarinet doest generally have a classical tone.
These clarinets aren't that difficult to come by, so if you see one, try it out!
Sam
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Author: ron b
Date: 2001-01-31 16:26
kny -
Sam's last sentence :| are you thinking of buying one?
If you want to do any really serious playing, using the Albert system, I'd strongly suggest that you get a real Albert or German system, not a simple system.
Albert and German system horns have a C# mechanism that makes everything a whole lot more comfortable and fun to play.
Sam is correct; they're not difficult to come by so, please, investigate further before you invest in something you may be discouraged by and unhappy with.
There are lots of informed folks here who can offer suggestions you can use to 'look before you leap'.
ron b
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Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2001-02-01 03:53
Kny
I play only Albert/German system clarinets. I spent some time in the army playing Boehm and didn't like what others would view as the standard clarinet.
The finger spacing on any of the Albert/German systems is wider especially the right hand but no further apart than a standard reach bassoon so they are definitely playable by most people.
The sound is quite different from a boehm clarinet, fatter, more expressive and definitely less clinical. The manufacturers of boehm clarinets have gradually modified the bore sizes and shapes so far from the original concept of the cylindrical bored stopped pipe that the sound of the modern boehm clarinets such as the large bored Buffet Festival and top of the line LeBlanc's no longer have the true clarinet sound.
Try an Albert system some time and use a softer reed than normal and spend some time listening to the tone, indeed variety of different tones you can make. There is also a German style mouthpiece with German style reeds, Black and White masters (VanDoren) that open up another range of possibilities.
Viva la difference
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Author: kny
Date: 2001-02-01 04:37
No, I don't intend to buy one. I don't think you can play anything much with such few keys anyway. I just like to look at the various german system that are available in www.ebay.de
Mark
I've seen the fingering chart of the german system. Is there a way to play C2 to Eb2 (clarion) trill on the german system? or even a B2 to Eb2 (clarion) trill? Is it possible to play the F2 note using the left middle finger to cover the 2nd hole?
Thanks
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Author: Karlheinz
Date: 2001-02-01 11:29
Kny
i believe that it's hard to play some parts - not only the trills, you mentioned - on old albert clarinets.
Using a modern - i.e. of the last 50 years - and fully equipped german clarinet, you don't have more difficulties than on a boehm. Many famous players of the german system (a lot more than just Sabine Meyer) are frequently giving a proof for that.
I found a quite comprehensive fingering chart at http://stud.physik.uni-dortmund.de/~kiel/Clarinet/griffe.html . May be that answers your question.
Karlheinz
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Author: Robert Gifford
Date: 2001-02-04 17:52
Albert System kind of reminds me almost exactly of my Saxophone, and there are a lot of things that are easer in some parts, but harder in others. Especially when you get into your lack of alternate fingerings.
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Author: John Kelly - Australia
Date: 2001-02-05 04:32
Amongst my small collection of non boehm system instruments I have:
* A Hawkes & Son London - 12 key/2 rings/no rollers model.
* A Buffet - 14 key/4 rings/ with rollers model
I have been led to believe from other more knowledgable players [than myself] of "Albert/Simple" systems that there is, in effect, no difference between my two clarinets insofar as the basic fingering is concerned and that the extra keys and rollers merely give the player more fingering options and ease of playing rather than setting the two apart as "different systems".
I will possibly be corrected by other long time players as I am an amateur jazz player who plays mainly in the keys of [concert] C, Eb, F, G, Ab and Bb but I also have a number of fingering charts, from various sources, and it seems that one can never get the "definitive" chart to match one's instrument. It would appear that given the subtle differences in key placement from manufacturer to manufacturer it should necessitate a fingering chart from each to match their particular products, however as I am playing very old instruments, I don't expect that such things exist any more - if in fact they did in the first instance.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-02-05 10:52
John Kelly - Australia wrote:
>
> Amongst my small collection of non boehm system
> instruments I have:
>
> * A Hawkes & Son London - 12 key/2 rings/no rollers model.
> * A Buffet - 14 key/4 rings/ with rollers model
>
> I have been led to believe from other more knowledgable players
> [than myself] of "Albert/Simple" systems that there is, in
> effect, no difference between my two clarinets insofar as the
> basic fingering is concerned and that the extra keys and
> rollers merely give the player more fingering options and ease
> of playing rather than setting the two apart as "different
> systems".
The additional fingering options are what set the Albert, Mueller, and simple systems apart. The Buffet has 14 keys and is thus an Albert. The other has only 12 keys and is thus not an Albert (but not sure what it is). Rollers vs non-rollers is not crucial to the definition. The number of rings is not necessarily crucial. It depends on their interaction.
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