 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Frank
Date: 1999-03-29 18:39
When my horn is in tune, the Bb [above middle C] remains rather sharp. [I am using a tuner.]Are there some keys that are too open or too closed that are causing this?
Any help appreciated.
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Author: Rick2
Date: 1999-03-29 18:52
It would be helpful to know what fingering you are using. Rubank Advanced #2 says that the forked fingering is slightly sharp. (Also Eb in the Chalemeau regiser is slightly sharp).
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Author: Gary Van Cott
Date: 1999-03-29 20:40
The Bb above middle C would be the throat Bb. Is this is the note you are asking about?
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Author: Albert
Date: 1999-03-29 21:57
Isn't throat Bb below middle C(all fingers down)? I think he's talking about the Bb above the staff. :o)
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Author: Frank
Date: 1999-03-29 23:12
Sorry for the confusion. It is the Bb on the staff. I typically use the index finger and thumb.
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Author: Dee
Date: 1999-03-30 00:41
Albert wrote:
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Isn't throat Bb below middle C(all fingers down)? I think he's talking about the Bb above the staff. :o)
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Middle C has always been the note that is one ledger line below the treble staff. It is the same note that is one ledger line above the bass staff.
When you have a grand staff (i.e. treble + bass clefs joined by bracket or brace) the middle C sits between them.
Unfortunately many students of clarinet are not taught the correct terminology (or the reason for the terminology) and incorrectly assume that it is the C that sits in the middle of the treble clef.
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Author: Rick2
Date: 1999-03-30 00:42
That note is typically poor sounding on most clarinets for a number of reasons that I wont go into. It's fine for fast passages but slower passages should use the side key fingering.
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Author: Rick2
Date: 1999-03-30 00:46
Dee, how do we ALWAYS post within seconds of each other?
I think he meant the instrument's middle C, not the Grand staff middle C, at least that;s how I interpreted his question.
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Author: Dee
Date: 1999-03-30 01:46
Rick2 wrote:
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Dee, how do we ALWAYS post within seconds of each other?
I think he meant the instrument's middle C, not the Grand staff middle C, at least that;s how I interpreted his question.
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I think the posting timing is hilarious myself.
However, we should all help each other to get the correct terminology or we will confuse each other. Any one who has had general music theory will have been taught that middle C is the one in the middle of the grand staff.
Beginners instrument books (if they include any theory at all and many don't) will also refer to the one based on the grand staff as middle C.
Then finally, the international pitch standard is defined as the A above middle C is 440 hz. Again they are refering to the middle C as based on the grand staff.
Thinking solely in terms of where it lies on one's own instrument will lead to a great deal of confusion in interacting with players of other instruments.
And if we play in a band setting, we all need to the same definition of middle C. If the director wants concert middle C played by the band, he wants the one that is defined by the grand staff whether you play an instrument that is notated in the treble clef like clarinet or in the bass cleff like the bassoon often is.
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Author: Fred McKenzie
Date: 1999-03-30 10:58
Dee wrote:
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And if we play in a band setting, we all need to the same definition of middle C. If the director wants concert middle C played by the band, he wants the one that is defined by the grand staff whether you play an instrument that is notated in the treble clef like clarinet or in the bass cleff like the bassoon often is.
Dee-
Now I'm getting confused. It appears that the definition is based solely on the location of the note on the staff, regardless of an instrument's key. This is complicated by the fact that some instruments of the same key, are one or more octaves apart when playing the same note on the staff (Soprano vs Bass vs Contra Bass).
Fortunately, my director has never asked me to play a "concert middle C"!
Fred
<A HREF="http://www.dreamnetstudios.com/music/mmb/index.htm">MMB</A>
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Author: Dee
Date: 1999-03-30 12:08
Fred McKenzie wrote:
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Dee wrote:
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And if we play in a band setting, we all need to the same definition of middle C. If the director wants concert middle C played by the band, he wants the one that is defined by the grand staff whether you play an instrument that is notated in the treble clef like clarinet or in the bass cleff like the bassoon often is.
Dee-
Now I'm getting confused. It appears that the definition is based solely on the location of the note on the staff, regardless of an instrument's key. This is complicated by the fact that some instruments of the same key, are one or more octaves apart when playing the same note on the staff (Soprano vs Bass vs Contra Bass).
Fortunately, my director has never asked me to play a "concert middle C"!
Fred
<A HREF="http://www.dreamnetstudios.com/music/mmb/index.htm">MMB</A>
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Did not mean to confuse you. As you know we would have to play the D just above to get that concert middle C since the clarinet is a transposing instrument. But the point is that "middle C" is an "absolute." International pitch is defined in reference to it (i.e. the A above middle C). Granted the conductor probably would not ask for that note and the lowest bass instruments can't get that high but if we defined middle C in terms of the instrument, that would really cause a problem.
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Author: Gary Van Cott
Date: 1999-03-30 18:26
You might want to try adding some extra fingers to the normal fingering. For example the second and third fingers of the left hand.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 1999-03-30 20:31
Very good Gary, I have found experimenting with fingers- coverings helps put the throat notes into tune, also the configuration, and degree of opening, of the register vent [and of the A key] is of great importance. My 1954 Selmer-Paris Bb is much "cleaner" and well in tune. The patent to A Galper US 5,241,890 on the vent claims improvement and should be researched by the cl makers !! Don
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Author: Frank
Date: 1999-03-31 08:59
Thanks to Don and Gary for a return to the topic and some helpful suggestions.
For all those academics out there, the Harvard Dictionary of Music [1972]says the following about Middle C:
". . . It is represented on the first ledge line below the violin staff, or on the first ledger line above the bass staff [528]."
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Author: paul
Date: 1999-04-07 18:40
Back to the original question...
A lot of the clarinets have the Register Key opening way too much as the horn comes "out of the box" (i.e. brand new). The Ridenour Fingering Book has a recommendation to get the Register Key adjusted to open to about 1.5 mm maximum to help the higher clarion and the entire altissimo range to "speak" better. I agree that the Register Key has an affect on tuning, as you suspected, so I personally had my local woodwind tech do the adjustment for me. The previous posting above mentioned using the side trill key fingering for long tones that happens to be in tune much better on lots of horns (on my horn it sounds better, too).
Also, as mentioned above, the thumb/forefinger fingering for this particular Bb (the high chalemeau Bb) is a weak note on the clarinet. So is the clarion A. Ditto for low altissimo D. The trick here is to find a way to make the classically weak notes (I believe the correct term is "acoustically weak" notes) on the clarinet sound great and right on target in-tune. Additional fingering tricks help. Adjustments to the keys, to the embouchure and to air support help, too. You will have to learn on your own for your own horn and for your own conditions to do whatever it takes to get the note out on time and in tune. That's the mark of a rank beginner versus a better player. The better player knows how to make the bad notes sound and play better in almost any situation.
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