 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2011-08-25 15:05
I can't remember all the words and signs (I guess it's something with sengo...) so I'm wondering if anyone here knows how to notate this exactly so all the info on repeats and jumps etc. is written in the sheet music. This is not so much for players, they already know from my explanation. But someone asked for a midi and I want Sibelius to play the midi exactly the way it should be. Right now I'm not sure how to write that.
- Play from the beginning until bar 20.
- At the end of bar 20 there is a repeat sign [this one :] to go back to the beginning.
- Then play from the beginning until (and including) bar 3.
- Jump to bar 21 and continue.
Although it is mainly for the program to playback, it is also partly for the player so the option of making bars 4-20 1st volta and bars 21... 2nd volta is not so great. I guess there is another way?
Thanks
Post Edited (2011-08-25 15:07)
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2011-08-25 15:20
My first reaction would have been exactly what you've described - first ending beginning at bar 4 with a repeat at the end, then 2nd ending beginning at bar 21. Sibelius (and Finale) should read this correctly for MIDI playback.
For the purpose of a MIDI file, the other way to make this play correctly would be to simply copy and paste everything into the correct sequence. Just remove the repeat entirely and paste a copy of bars 1-3 after bar 20. This might even be easier for human musicians to read - no jumping around the page.
Karl
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2011-08-25 15:45
I'm with Karl. If I were writing it, I'd do it without repeat signs at all. Usually, a repeat or a DS is handy because a large swath of music is played multiple times, but if you're only reusing 3 bars of it, it's not worth the roadmap headache for the performers and the midi headache for you.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2011-08-25 16:01
The problem with writing those 3 bars again is that, by coincidence, it will make the part impossible to write on just one page and make it two pages. In this case it is an issue and one page is much better for various reasons. I wanted to avoid having two files, one for the midi and one to print. I guess I'll use the voltas since it's the quickest change.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2011-08-25 16:03
There are tons of ways to squeeze more music on a page. Are you using the default staff size? Send it to me offline and I might be able to make it fit in an acceptable manner.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2011-08-25 16:11
Normally you'd put at the end of bar 20 a "D.C. al S - S", meaning "Da Capo al Segno - Segno", and put the two Segnos at bars 4 and 21.
If a piece isn't to be repeated from the beginning, you'd have a "D.S al C - C", meaning "Dal Segno al Coda - Coda" where you'd use one Segno and two Codas.
And there are a ton of other ways to do it, but these are the ones I most often encounter. Marching literature has to fit on one sheet, and they heavily rely on percent repeats, segnos, codas, fines and so on.
For Midi, I'd simply copy / paste everything as needed and wouldn't rely on repeats. (In this case I have two versions - one for printing, one for MIDI).
Lilypond can be told to "unfold" the repeats, but this will just work with volta brackets and fail on Segno or Coda repeats.
--
Ben
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2011-08-25 18:11
It's not that I can't squeeze it in one page, it's that I don't really want to so it is more "roomy" (easier to read). Those three bars actually have an ossia above so it's like two lines (is that the word for it in English? line?). Certain staves have to be in the same line and without other staves. I'm sure there are more details I forget.
Alex, if you don't mind (or want the challenge...?) trying to make it squeeze then sure, I'll send it, and appreciate you trying. Maybe you'll find something I missed. As long as you can return it in a file that I can read with my old Sibelius 3.
I'll use the voltas for midi since it's fastest and easiest. I was hoping to use the same for both (midi and print). Such a long 1st volta seems stranger (in comparison with the length of the other parts). I think just because the sengo sign is easier to jump into your eyes. I think I'll just ask them what they prefer and they'll know what to do anyway from the explanation.
Thanks
Post Edited (2011-08-26 04:23)
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2011-08-25 22:46
Come to think of it - it'd be easier to re-print bars 1 through 3 after the original "repeat" mark. Then you don't have a repeat but rather a simple straight forward flow, which is easier to maintain midi-wise and easier to follow.
Having a "repeat" for just three bars seems a bit silly, at least if you don't have to squeeze to the max.
So, print bars 1..20, then print bars 1..3, then the rest from bar 21 on. No repeats, no voltas, no segnos. The only problem is that this will mess with the bar numberings - if there are printed bar numbers, you may want to reset to the original bar number from 21 onwards. (probably important for ensemble playing).
--
Ben
Post Edited (2011-08-25 22:48)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2011-08-26 04:44
Ben, maybe you didn't notice others already suggested it and I thought of it too. No messing with the numbering as long as I add them in all parts or in the partiture and create new parts. The program does that automatically. Problem is, as I mentioned, it would force me to make the parts two pages instead of one and because of certain conditions we are playing in this is important. It's already borderline too squeezy, the three bars have an ossia, etc. so not a good option.
I used voltas for the midi since that was the fastest to add. I might keep that for printing too or maybe use something else.
Post Edited (2011-08-26 04:49)
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2011-08-26 05:19
Voltas will cause far more clutter and real estate usage than three extra bars, and if you're running multiple staves where a player only plays one, it complicates the visuals significantly.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2011-08-26 06:10
> Ben, maybe you didn't notice others already suggested it and I thought of it too.
Duh. I swear these posts weren't there when I wrote this.
--
Ben
Post Edited (2011-08-26 06:11)
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