 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2001-01-29 13:11
Yesterday I got out my bass clarinet to practice. I noticed that a chalameau D played after a C or C# did not sound good. The key was not springing back up properly. Tried a little oiling, but it continued to get less responsive. Took a couple of keys off to see what I could do. If I put the key on the screw, it would swing around it freely. The main friction was between the ends of the key and the posts, but I don't see how anything could have changed there. I suspect that the spring has lost some of its springiness, which is consistent with seeing the problem getting progressively worse.
Well, to get to the point, I plan on taking the instrument into the shop today to see if they will replace the spring in time for tonight's band rehearsal. In case they don't have time to, I would like to try to get a spring from them and do it myself. How is the spring attached? Is it just a matter of pulling the old one out and inserting a new one, then bending it to the proper angle?
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Author: Terry Horlick
Date: 2001-01-29 14:35
The round ones are tapered. Push it through the post while holding the sharp end. Then push the new one back in while holding the fat end. Tonight you might want some rubber bands!
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2001-01-29 14:51
I called the music store and they can't handle it today. I still have my old instrument, but haven't had it out of its case in a long time, so don't know how it will play. It was in good shape last time I used it though. I may end up trying to jerry-rig something with a rubber band. Or, if I get desperate, taking a spring from my old instrument.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-01-29 17:50
Don, while I do minor repairs, I much prefer to go to a pro repairer for the proper size/strength spring. Even with having to remove the broken-off old spring, it usually takes only about 5 minutes , so try hard to get help! Don
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Author: ron b
Date: 2001-01-29 18:52
I gather, Don, from the tone of your post, that you've never changed a spring before. Springs are not difficult to change providing you have a few things readily available. Please consider the following:
1. A replacement spring the same size, or very nearly the same size, as the 'old' one.
2. A means to get the old spring out if it's stubborn, pliers, tiny hammer etc. A chunk of lead to back the post while you're banging on it.
3. Epoxy cement, clamps, and twenty four hours of patience while the broken out post resets.
4. After the post has been re-stabilized you'll need a way (alcohol lamp, bunsen burner or...) to heat the big end and flatten it on a hard surface just a little - so it wedges into the post (pillar) enough to not turn or slip back out.
5. A few extra springs to use when you've ruined the first two or three by overheating them.
6. Some way to bend the spring to get the tension right - (jeweler's ring pliers work pretty well for me).
7. A couple of hours practice on an old, preferably scrap, horn that you won't worry about when you happen to break the spring off, break the post out; one you won't care whether you mar the post trying to squeeze the new spring back in with diagonal pliers because you don't happen to have a tool to do it 'right'.
8. Your favorite brand of *headache pain potion* :|
OR..........
Collect a fistful of RUBBER BANDS to use for emergencies 'til you can get to a shop where they'll do it for you in a jiffy and possibly, if you're a really nice person, charge you a little pocket change for the part (customer good will -- you know 
Most shops are *always* too busy - over the phone. Walk in, explain your situation and they're pretty apt to take care of you right away.
Really, though, there's nothing very hard about changing springs once you get the hang of it but, please... try it out on something worthless first. You may get it right the first time. Then again.... rubber bands work wonders too.
ron b
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2001-01-29 19:25
Don -
From your description, it sounds like a weak spring is not the problem, but rather the wood has shrunk slightly, making the posts bind against the ends of the rod. This happens a lot in winter, when the humidity is low.
If the key is anchored by two pivot screws, one in each post, try loosening one or both of the screws about half a turn. They will tend to back out further as you play, so this is only a temporary fix, but it will do as long as you remember to check them before each rehearsal. As you play the instrument and water gets into the wood, it will swell back to its normal position.
If the key has a hollow tube, and a rod goes from one post to another, the solution is a little more difficult. First, clean out the tube with a pipe cleaner and put in fresh oil. Then make sure the tube hasn't gotten bent when you put the instrument together (or if it has been [shudder] dropped). Sometimes moving the screw 1/4 or /12 turn helps.
A *very* skilled repair technician can tap on the posts *very* lightly to move them a fraction of an inch out. Don't try this at home. Grinding the tube a bit shorter is also a possibility, but again, this is a job for a pro.
A damp-it will help bring the humidity up.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-01-29 19:29
Vunderbahr, Ron, you say it so very well. While I've experienced only several of your do-it-urself "dire conssequences", I have never been happy with my efforts. Presently I have a small green rubber band adding a bit of seating pressure to my bass's upper register pad, since my "strengthing" of the spring didn't help. Some of my musically-alert friends kid me about it, I just smile and say, it plays fine!! Ah, Well. Don
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2001-01-29 19:53
I get your point, Ron. I won't try to do it myself. Rehearsal is only four hours away and I'm still at work.
Ken, the key is a hollow tube. I had it off yesterday, cleaned it with a pipe cleaner and assured myself that it would swing around the screw freely. When placed on the instrument, it seemed to bind slightly even when the screw wasn't tightened. If it doesn't repair itself through the rehumidification of my hot breath, I still have two temporary options. One is the rubber band method, which I prefer. The other is to get out my old LeBlanc and see if it is still in playing condition. A third is to take the instrument in to be repaired and talk them out of a loaner instrument. I prefer the rubber band method because then I get to play the best of the available instruments.
Thanks for all the advice. I need to go look for a small variety of rubber bands to choose from. But it won't be on there for long - don't want to tarnish the key.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2001-01-29 21:39
Well, Don (P), nobody can tell you what to do (but)...
It appears from here that you don't *have* much choice. Rehearsal is... what, a couple hours or less - from now(?) .
No time to send springs by rocket express and even less time to explain to the homing pigeons where you live now. Grab a few rubber bands on your way out the door, wherever you work. Your boss will forgive you this one time when you explain how desperate you were :]
If your spare horn is sleepy, then what?
Rubber bands are wonderful. Always keep a few fresh ones on you for, well, who knows what might happen? LOL :]
Please, by all means, DO try it yourself, changing a spring - just not - NOW :|
Hope it goes well at rehearsal.
ron b
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2001-01-30 18:58
To followup -
I had trouble even finding a rubber band at work! Got home and found one of those elasticized ties that women/girls use in their hair (can't think of what they are called). I put it around the key and wrapped it around to where the neckstrap hooks on. It worked well. About halfway through rehearsal I took it off just to see what would happen. It looked as though the instrument might play without it, but I put it back on anyway. I'll see what happens from here and may end up taking the instrument in for professional help.
At least I couldn't blame the instrument for missed notes at rehearsal.
Thanks for the input.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2001-01-31 09:25
Ken is correct.
A rubber band is a bandaid only.
The following applies to ONLY to hollow tube pivots.
If it binds jams even slightly between the posts without even having the rod inside then there are two (likely) possibilities:
1. The posts are too close together or the tube is too long - for your climate conditions, as Ken said. Solution is to (very) slightly shorten the tube but remember to clean any filings out! A repair tech has special hinge tube shortening tools that keep the end flat and at right angles. I think it would be a foolish tech who tried to solve this problem by tapping a timber mounted post. It will just make the post loose.
2. Common: The post with the spring in it is loose, possibly because of timber drying, and the force of the spring action has turned it slightly so that it jams the tube. Most common solution: Unscrew the post a few turns, put some pumice powder under it (to act as a washer) and screw the post back. Correct alignment is important. Get rid of all excess abrasive powder.
If it binds when you insert the rod and screw it in only a turn or two it could be:
3: "2" above
4. The post without the thread is turned out of alignment and slightly bends the rod when the rod is screwed into the other post. Check for this by inserting the rod without the key and see if it enters the threaded post in correct alignment.
5. There is a ridge on the post that the tube is binding on. Get rid of it.
6. Part of the spring (near the post) is binding against the tube. Bend it away or grind away the offending part of the key.
7. Part of the key (say a cup or ring) is touching the instrument body. Bend the key away or remove the offending timber.
If it starts binding as the rods is screwed up more:
8. The thread of the rod is bent out of line with the rest of the rod, so as the thread is screwed in it tends to slightly bend the rod and jam the tube. See "10"
9. The threaded post has rotated slightly, having the same effect as "8", possibly as a result of a knock. While the key is mounted grab the post with soft jaw pliers and give it a rotation 'tweek' in one direction. If this does not work give it a tweek in the opposite direction.
If If it starts binding only on the last fraction of a tightening turn:
9. Very likely "8" Cure: Lightly tap the top of the tube using a soft (pexiglass?) punch and small hammer. If that doesn't work then turn the rod 180 degrees and tap again. No? - try 90 degrees. No? - try 270 degrees.
10. Still could be "9"
11. Check for a wear burr inside the very end of the tube. Did the key swing freely even when the threaded end of the rod was all inside the tube? (ie tested off the instrument)
These are only the most likely possibilites. Isn't it amazing how a simple symptom can actually represent something so complicated. This is just one example of how it is better to leave these problems to the experienced repair technician! And note that many of the above are comnmon faults on ex-factory instruments, even ones with a high reputation. And some repair technicians just leave a screw rod loose so as not to have to identify and deal with the problem.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2001-01-31 09:28
Note the easy assumption by so many that this was a spring problem. A large proportion of user diagnoses are incorrect. Hence the user/'repairer' often just makes more work for the technician to correct.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2001-01-31 16:06
Some techs enjoy Hawaiian vacations every other year on the proceeds they earn correcting amateur repair mistakes
(Now, if you believe that, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you).
I think most people have enough of a 'feel' of their instrument to make an accurate guess at where something's wrong. Of course you may need some experience fixing clarinet malfunctions (I love that word!) to pinpoint it. I find that the problem is often looking right back at you. A first hand examination of the instrument is essential.
It seems to me, Don, that you have all that (you play well, you're familiar with the horn; you've done some tinkering with it already) plus a *lot* of resourcefulness (I feel bad for the lady though who couldn't read a note 'cause her hair was in her eyes ) you just need some 'proper' tools (perhaps a little direction at first) to do the job yourself while not under pressure of an imminent rehearsal. If you decide not to do the fixin', you know what to tell the tech; that's a lot better than, 'It just doesn't seem to play right'. It'll save you time (money) at the outset.
Gordon is absolutely correct - it may *not* be a spring at all, 'we' don't know. Also, some well known brand-name horns come away from the factory with so many problems they shouldn't have left any shop in their condition. But, for the distributor (music store), it's easier (=cost effective) to fix them rather than send 'em back (don't think for a moment that the manufacturers are unaware of this. It's cost effective for 'them' too).
Annnnnyyway....
All the best :]
ron b
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