 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: blogan
Date: 2011-08-20 10:55
One has the name Paul Covey inscribed on it and the other says C. Fischer. I know about the C. Fishcer.
I believe the serial number of the Paul Covey on is 25369. And the C. Fisher is 32681.
Does anyone have any information on these or the models. The seller is selling these both for $1100. Is this a good price. They are being sold as is. This is an estate sale and they are in need of a little repair and cleaning.
Thanks.
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2011-08-20 13:22
Are you sure the one which says Paul Covey is actually a clarinet? Paul Covey was an oboe maker of high repute, but I am not aware that he ever produced a clarinet.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-08-20 15:24
Have you got any photos of them you can post on here? That way we can determine wheter they're both clarinets or an oboe and clarinet.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: blogan
Date: 2011-08-20 16:29
They are both definitely clarinets. The one that has Paul Covey stamped on it also says Baltimore underneath the Paul Covey. But they are clarinets. The problem is now that they are an A and a C.
So here is my question now. I used to play as a kid and want to get back into it. I was told the A and C will sound different than the Bb. Will there be a noticeable difference? I still want a warm and slightly dark tone. That is why I am leaning towards the old clarinets.
Did I mention that one of them has the old style wrap around octave key?
Thanks
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Author: blogan
Date: 2011-08-20 17:02
Attachment: buffet011.jpg (755k)
Okay so the two clarinets in question are A and C clarinets with a Frank Kaspar mouthpiece. Here is a picture of them in a case.
I read where Paul Covey made barrels for clarinets and that might be why one of them is stamped with his name. The other is stamped C. Fischer and I heard he used to sell buffets in new york.
So I don't know what to do, but something is telling me to get them as they would have pretty good tone. I am into old wood instruments being a guitar player and to me, the older the wood the better the tone. This person wants $1099 for both of the clarinets.
What to you think? Can you help me with my decision?
Click on the jpg for the picture.
Post Edited (2011-08-20 17:04)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-08-20 18:24
I see - the C clarinet probably lost its barrel along the way (or it cracked) so it was replaced with a Paul Covey barrel.
I think $1099 for the pair isn't bad considering that's around £670 and a new pro model C clarinet is pretty well near the £3000 mark and a new R13 Bb or A clarinet is around the £2000 mark.
And provided they're both low pitch (440Hz), then I don't think you can go wrong there and they're worth having restored.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2011-08-20 18:24)
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Author: Wes
Date: 2011-08-20 20:04
They look like a pair of Bb and A clarinets. C on one of them stands for Carl as in Carl Fisher. I do not see a C clarinet there. They may be an older set of Buffets with a Covey barrel. If you play in a symphony orchestra, you will need an A clarinet but if you only will play in a band, a Bb clarinet is what is used. Many professional players do not own a C clarinet.
$1099 for the pair is probably a good price, depending upon condition. Could you find a clarinet player or teacher to check them over? Good luck!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-08-20 21:51
Now I've had a closer look, the barrels are the same or very similar length (C clarinet barrels will be a lot shorter) and the top joints are in the wrong compartments, so they are a Bb and A pair - not a C and an A.
From top to bottom of the photo (back of case to front):
A lower joint and bell joined together,
Covey barrel and Bb top joint,
Bb lower joint and bell joined together,
Buffet barrel and A top joint.
The Bb and A top joints are in the wrong places in the case.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2011-08-20 21:53)
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Author: blogan
Date: 2011-08-20 22:56
Attachment: buffet004.jpg (671k)
Attachment: buffet006.jpg (759k)
Attachment: buffet014.jpg (646k)
Attachment: buffet015.jpg (870k)
Attachment: buffetking022.jpg (704k)
So would you guys take a look at these pictures and tell me what you think. They definitely need to be cleaned up, but that is no problem. And probably need a lot of restoration work, but again no problem.
Are these worth getting? He also has this Frank Kaspar mouthpiece which he says is worth a lot of money in itself.
Is the one with the cork thumb rest the Bb or the A?
I need to pull the trigger on these pretty soon. Any further help would be greatly appreciated.
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Author: Koo Young Chung
Date: 2011-08-20 23:25
Those clarinets are not in good condition.
You probably have to spend $800-1,000 for good overhaul.
I would get a much better ,newer Buffet R13 for lesser money.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-08-21 00:01
If both instruments are pictured assembled and standing next to each other, that will show which one is which. Also if you can find out the lengths of each assembled instrument without the mouthpiece, that too will help. Either in imperial or metric (or both).
Going by the cased photo, the lower joint with the dot on the RH F#/C# touch (that's the flat spring screw tip) and the upper joint with the wrap-around speaker key and no adjusting screw on the throat G# cup arm is the A clarinet.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2011-08-21 19:01
If the Kaspar mouthpiece is included and undamaged, and the clarinets are uncracked with nice tenons, I would go for the package. If the tip and/or side rails on the Kaspar are chipped, forget it. Without the Kaspar mouthpiece, I would be unwilling to pay more than $800 for this set of clarinets.
If all you really need is a B-flat clarinet, an unrestored early Buffet like the one included in this package can be had for well under $500--and even at that price, such an instrument may not represent your best value in a vintage clarinet. There are fine vintage clarinets for other makers worth considering that can be found in ready-to-play condition for what you'd pay for a fixer-upper Buffet.
As always, try to negotiate a better price.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2011-08-21 20:16
I don't see a trademark on either bell. If they don't have the trademarks, they aren't by Buffet and the instruments are nearly worthless.
I'm not sure when Buffet stopped making wraparound register keys, and I think, there was a period when they offered them both. I'd be happy to be enlightened. It's certainly possible that S/N 25369 (from 1938) could be a late appearance for the wraparound key.
The A clarinet will need to be checked carefully for cracks. As I wrote in my other message to you, it may need a new, longer barrel.
The Covey barrel has the same trademark (a diamond between curved type) as the current Covey oboes http://www.oboes.com/TheCoveyOboe.html. As ohsuzan says, Covey has a high reputation as an oboe maker, and the barrel could be very good (though there's no guarantee).
As Chris points out, the Bb clarinet has has a needle spring for the F#/C# key. The upward-pointing brass screw for a flat spring is not present, and the needle spring is visible in photo buffet004.jpg. The throat A key does not appear to have a groove in the wood (for a flat spring to slide in) between the horizontal axle and the padded key underneath the A key, so it has a needle spring. It's thus a late pre-R13, from the late 1940s. Although it has the flat pre-R13 trill key guide, it has two pairs of posts for the left little finger E/B and F#/C# keys, which also have the flatter modern profile.
A mint Kaspar Ann Arbor mouthpiece could be worth in the high hundreds by itself. This one is well used, however. The key is to look down from above the rails at the ramp running down from the tip. If it has a dull surface (and especially if it has any marks), it's been re-worked and the mouthpiece is worth at most a quarter the price of a mint example. Again, you'd need to play it to find out whether it's worth buying.
Finally, I wouldn't trust an estate sale instrument to be in playable, or even near-playable condition. I wouldn't buy without a trial, with a WRITTEN agreement to return everything for a full refund for any reason, or for no reason.
Ken Shaw
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