 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: MandyCarlsson
Date: 2011-08-15 07:27
So, after much frustration I decided I need professional guidance and I signed on for lessons with a professor of clarinet at the local university. It just happens that I studied with him some 18 years ago and he remembered me, so he did not mind fitting me into his schedule (the money probably helps as well, haha).
One of the books he has me working in is Kroepsch's 416 Progressive Studies. I have to start most studies at a super slow, snail pace and, using a metronome, I work on increasing the tempo. I am having a heck of a time getting the 64th note runs to sounds like smooth and pretty runs when the metronome is set above, erm, 84. HA! I bet anything that some of you just fly through these runs like nobody's business, but not me.
So, I would be thrilled and grateful if everyone shared their approach to the Kroepsch studies. My biggest problem is keeping the notes EVEN when I increase the speed. Some of my fingers want to go the speed of light, others seem to want a finger nap. I'm trying not to get frustrated- I guess I should just practice again and again at a tempo I can handle and eventually I'll get there, but.... well, it is frustrating! (Did I mention I am frustrated?)
Input invited!
Thanks.
Post Edited (2011-08-15 07:28)
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2011-08-15 08:45
I like these studies, you can really make music with these little snippets. I would suggest you continue in that vain, slow practice is the key. I would also say that you need to think relaxed as well and transfer that into your fingers. Relaxed mind, relaxed technique.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2011-08-15 10:33
Subdivide, and don't allow the relatively different strength of the fingers to control the eveness - make the rhythm have the control. So set the metronome to 168 (max) for the 84 tempo. Break down each beat also (so 4, then 8 notes at a time at full speed).
There are many practice tips previously written on the board. Using those such as rhythmic changes with a straight value run can help a lot. (long, short, long, short, then reversing the rhythm the next try).
Then make haste slowly.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2011-08-15 14:56
Gads, do not take the speed of the Kreopsch studies seriously!
Play them slowly as you describe.
They are really great things to have in your quiver because there are always a couple of great little riffs there for you in each key.
I found that working on them with a good teacher is, if not totally necessary, a very big help. Think: alternate fingerings, starting a run through the woodpile with the other pinkie finger, ...
It sounds like you're headed in the right direction.
Enjoy.
Bob Phillips
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Author: TianL
Date: 2011-08-15 15:29
i do exactly the same as you.. start very slowly and gradually increase the speed. Also, I found it helpful to do what the book suggests: to repeat each one 4-8 times. Sometimes you can do it once at a certain speed but not 8 times in a row!
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Author: clairmusic
Date: 2011-08-15 17:31
I live in co springs and teach. I went to csu-p 6 yrs and the UNC in greeley. a great book to try is the R ussionoff studies they have the book on amazon.com book 1and 2 gd luck!
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Author: MandyCarlsson
Date: 2011-08-15 17:47
clairmusic, then you studied with DeLuca! He was my middle school teacher and then my private teacher when I was in high school. 
When I gain my residency status (January 2012) I am entering the Music Ed program. I am very excited.
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Author: Jwinn
Date: 2011-08-15 21:13
I returned to clarinet playing in he last year and recently started hammering away at the Rose Etudes. I found myself pracicing them for what seemed like *too long* - playing passage of runs over and over endlessly. I woud play it at a particular tempo until I had it basically perfect and then bump the metronome 4-8 beats. This worked fine on some passages, but some snarly little sections just wouldn't gel - At 104 beats it was fine, at 108 it fell apart!
For those sections I've developed a new plan - I start at a tempo where I can play it consistenty and flawlessly - don't worry about what that tempo is for you. I then increase by 1 beat at a time - that way the increases in speed are very small and incremental and my fingers ease into faster tempos rather than being jarred into them. If I make a mistake, I repeat the run at each tempo until I don't make a mistake - this sometimes requires a couple of repeats, but rarely muliple repeats if I've started slowly enough. I keep at it until I've increased by 15 beats. I then leave it alone until the next day. The next day I start 10 beats ahead of where I began the day before. For example, day 1 I start at 80 beats and increase beat by beat to 95 beats. The next day I begin at 90 beats and increaseto 105...etc.
It's a little time consuming but works really well for detangling those realy tricky bits! I also fnd the cumulativ improvement sticks around more than it does when I try to proceed too quickly. Happy practicing!
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2011-08-16 05:36
Jwinn,
An alternative to accelerating metronomes is to take a few notes at a time, maybe a measure. Hold the first note of a beat and then play the rest of the notes in that beat. Hold the first note of the next beat, and then play the rest --continuing.
Then, do it again, holding the second note of each beat.
the third note, ...
that way, you get to hesitate and thing about what you're going to do next.
Since you're playing all of the un-delayed notes "at tempo," you can probably make faster progress than 15-replays at a beat apart.
And, darn, my new metronome won't let me set every beat. Example, it will do 100/104/108/... but NOT 101, 102, 103, ... 105, 106, 107, ...
Try it for variety.
A second technique is to set your egg timer and play a short segment over and over non stop for 5-10 minutes. SHUDDER
Bob Phillips
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Author: Jwinn
Date: 2011-08-16 17:20
Thanks, Bob! I'll give the technique you suggest a whirl as well! I still won't be able to start at tempo though - the particular etude (Rose #38 of 40) I am working on is marked at 168 bpm...! Can we all pause and shake our heads and guffaw? I can't even get a feel in my head for 16th's notes at 168 bpm - literally, when I listen to th metronome at 168 and try to hold a consistent concept in my mind of what I would need to play - can't do it.
My goal for the piece is 144 - thoughts and prayers welcome. A lot of the runs are very simple, just scales, and I think it's in F so easy key, but there are some gnarly little, accidental ridden runs in there that will never be produced my my pudgy fingers at 168 bpm.
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Author: MandyCarlsson
Date: 2011-08-17 04:42
Jwinn,
I cheat- I listen to most of the Rose studies and etudes on youtube. It helps me get a feel for what they should sound like. There are several very talented clarinetists that have shared Rose with the world.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2011-08-17 13:29
These are great studies. I've used them to help students play evenly, play legato, work of skips and intonation and of course technique. I would often use book one twice. The second time around the student was more advanced and we would concentrate more on speed by that time. Depending on the student, I would assign a few lines each week, half a page or an entire page. When I studied them in college I did a whole page each week. I had already gone through book 1while in high school so I was ready to speed them up. I would do, and teach, each line at a different tempo. Basically trying to play them each as fast as possible but starting them slower first to get them perfect and each day increasing the speed. I'd do them and recommend them to be done at least 4 times each day and some even more every day as needed. ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2011-08-17 13:59
I'd been playing for 6 Months, and asked my Uncle who lived in the Netherlands to send me a music study book from there. He sent me the Kroepsch.
I played those suckers too! Coincidentally, when I moved up to Pennsylvania in 10th grade, I studied with the guy on the back cover of that book - Leon Lester.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2011-08-17 21:41
David, Leon Lester is not on the back of my books. I own both the Carl Fischer and Internnational editions. Books 1 and 2. ESP
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Author: sonicbang
Date: 2011-08-17 23:53
Kroepsch studies are one of the most useful ones. They help developing tonal thinking, learning patterns etc. Keeping the notes even becomes easier when you recognize the points where the melody makes a turn and there you should give some time to yourself to express that part of the phrase. This maybe sounds paradoxical, but it works.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2011-08-18 22:04
It's a newer edition than my two editions David. I'm an older generation so I have the ones without him on them. The one I used in college, graduated in 62, does not have that on the back. The other edition was given to me by our former 2nd clarinet player, even older than me. :-) ESP
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2011-08-18 22:41
I have all four volumes. A great addition to the etude repertoire.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: grenadilla428
Date: 2011-08-19 14:00
Mandy -
Another method you might try is adding one note at a time. (warning - this is also tedious). For a particularly tricky passage, play the first note ONLY. Play the first note, then the second. Play the first note, then the second, then the third. Play the first note, then the second, then the third, then... well, you get the idea. Do not add the next note until you can play the first three (or four, or whatever number you make it to before making a mistake). I particularly like this exercise when done backwards - start with the last note, then add the one before, then add the one before that. I use it in my own practice quite a bit.
You're drawing attention to every note in the passage, one at a time, then immediately putting it back into context and placing attention on the next note.
Adult students (especially ones returning to the instrument after a hiatus) often think they are spending more time practicing than they should have to. That's deceptive - when you were first learning the instrument as a child/pre-teen, you weren't trying to play material that is as difficult as what you want to play now. You also didn't have the expectation that you should play like an "adult" right away, but since you are one now, it's easy to be impatient with yourself. What you don't see/hear is that those of us who have been playing pretty much non-stop have spent lots of time in our own practice rooms. You'd be surprised to hear how many cumulative hours the pros that you hear have spent working to get where they are. Playing the instrument is both mental and physical - the physical just takes time and repetition. Hang in there! :-)
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Author: Jwinn
Date: 2011-08-19 16:44
Grenadilla -
The problem of expecting to much too fast as an adult returning to the instrument is compounded when you were never really a practicer to begin with. When I was younger, I was able to excel pretty quickly with not too much effort. The one period when I really practiced was leading up to my audition for a military band, and I got in so that period of practice was "enough", and the skill level I was at was far enough advanced to play Sousa marches endlessly, so I still didn't practice much then.
Now I am wanting to improve a variety of things and, along with the urge to get better quickly, I've never developed solid practice routines - you know, something other than "For 1-2 hours every night I play things that I enjoy playing, mostly because I can play them pretty well". I never made friends with long tones...I fear I never will!
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Author: GBK
Date: 2011-08-19 20:09
I've been using them for teaching over an entire lifetime, however I have yet to hear a satisfactory explanation of the puzzling ++ markings over / under four of the notes in exercise #86.
...GBK
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