 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: yearsofwisdom
Date: 2011-08-14 19:10
I am in the market for a new mouthpiece and since I am in high school and look only to pursue music to the degree of band/orchestra in college, I probably won't consider something really expensive. I currently have a m30 and it has changed or i have changed that i am not getting as much control as i used to. Reeds become softer and softer on it and i generally lack resistance when blowing. The sound is pretty good but unfocused.
Would a b40 13 or a b40 lyre fit my needs and which should i get?
And has anyone heard about these vandoren masters mouthpieces? How are they?
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2011-08-14 20:51
There has been some discussion on VD Masters (and all the others) recently.. try the search function
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Author: TianL
Date: 2011-08-14 22:04
it all depends on your own preference.. my favorite of the vandorens is the m13 lyre and the master CL4 is 2nd on my list. For me, the CL4 takes about a 1/4 - 1/2 strength softer reed than the M13 lyre, and CL5 takes even softer reed, probably close to what you would use for a B40. To me both CL4 and CL5 are great mouthpieces and the feels and controls are great. I prefer the M13 lyre a little more just because there is a little more resonance in the sound.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2011-08-14 23:31
Why not do as Ed Palanker suggested in the other thread? Make an appointment with the Vandoren store in NYC and try them all out. Then you can judge for yourself which might perform best for you. If you do not trust your judgment, ask your teacher to come with you.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: yearsofwisdom
Date: 2011-08-14 23:51
Unfortunately, i am a high school student applying to colleges. My weekends are reserved for visiting schools and my weekdays are completely busy. And i did search for the other thread but my post got deleted......................................
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Author: Ed
Date: 2011-08-15 01:06
You can mail order a few mouthpieces to try from some online shops like Muncy, which will not take any time away from your busy schedule. I am sure you will be able to find the time.
If you liked the M30, why not try some new ones to see if it is just an issue with you current mp?
I recently tried the masters CL4 at the Vandoren showroom in NY. I liked a lot of things about it, although it tuned around 20 cents sharp on my R13 with a 66mm barrel. I would have some concern about being able to play it in the orchestras and ensembles where I currently perform.
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Author: OboeLover4Life
Date: 2011-08-15 02:49
"And i did search for the other thread but my post got deleted......................................"
No it didn't, it's right here.
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=354783&t=354783Ed
If music be the food of love, play on. ~William Shakespeare
Post Edited (2011-08-15 02:49)
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Author: TianL
Date: 2011-08-15 03:29
by the way, are you sure this problem is due to your mouthpiece, and not your clarinet?
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Author: Bob Barnhart ★2017
Date: 2011-08-16 14:37
I played an M30 for several years before switching to a B40 Lyre.
The M30 is a great mouthpiece, but has a very long lay that (in part) gives it a very dark sound, makes it free-flowing and (for some players) difficult to control. I never had that problem perhaps in part because I concentrate on providing a strong, focused air-stream with lots of support. This is essential for any mouthpiece, but especially so for the M30. When I was playing the M30, I would typically use V12 #4 reeds (worked to about 3.75) to achieve the right feel, although some players would prefer a slightly softer reed.
The B40 Lyre is slightly more open and has more resistance--which can be helpful for some players. In contrast to the M30, for me, the B40 Lyre felt best with a softer reed, e.g., a V12 #3.5 worked down to about 3.25.
For me, I didn't find the B40 (which is more open than the B40 Lyre, with a slightly shorter lay than the M30/B40L) to have the right "feel" and so I stayed with the B40 Lyre.
I also tried the M30 Lyre. Although personally, I preferred the M30, I felt that the M30L gave a more focused and controlled sound. I also heard from many people who had control problems with the M30 that they really liked the M30L. I also found that the M30L felt best with something more like a V12 #3.5 reed.
Both the M30 and B40L are great mouthpieces, but they require a mature approach to embouchure and air support for best results. I would recommend considering trying the M30L or even a 5RV Lyre over either the M30 or B40 to address the issues you face. The new Masters CL4/CL5 might be a possibility, but I have no experience with them.
However, whatever mouthpiece you play, it is imperative to have a strong, focused air support, with a strong embouchure. To this end, practicing long-tones at all dynamics is essential. Be sure to create a strong, fast, focused air-stream so that each note has a full, round, resonant tone. Think of "singing-through" rather than "blowing-into" the instrument. Also make sure you have a strong but non-biting embouchure that seals all around the mouthpiece/reed without restricting the sound. Slow scales will allow you to ensure evenness of tone across the range of the instrument. Intervals/arpeggios will help develop flexibility and will help determine when/where you may have problems with your embouchure or air-support.
Good luck!
Bob Barnhart
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Author: yearsofwisdom
Date: 2011-08-16 18:02
Hey Bob,
Thanks for the great response! Should i get the B40 Lyre 13 or does it matter which model of the B40 Lyre i should get. And my clarinet is very old,(1940s) Selmer, so resistance is exactly what i need to get the control i need for entrances and such.
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Author: Bob Barnhart ★2017
Date: 2011-08-17 05:45
Andrew,
There are 3 issues to consider: sound, pitch and beak-shape. I have found that I much prefer the sound of the 13-series mouthpieces over their non-13 counterparts. The 13-series is pitched at A440, while the "traditional" non-13 series mouthpieces are pitched at A442. This may help in some situations, but is generally quite sharp for most American ensembles. Finally, the 13-series come with the "Profile-88" beak shape, which is a bit longer and more slender than the "traditional" mouthpiece beak.
All things considered, I would recommend the the series-13 version, but if you have a chance to try a couple of each style, you would be well served.
Bob
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Author: Ed
Date: 2011-08-17 11:02
It is worth trying both versions. For some people, the "13 series" mouthpieces can often be a little flat, especially in the throat region. A lot depends on the player and the instrument.
There is really only one person who can ultimately answer what mouthpiece would be best for you. Of course that would be you, perhaps with the aid of a good teacher.
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Author: yearsofwisdom
Date: 2011-08-18 23:31
Ed, do you have any experience with the masters mouthpieces? if not, i think i'm just going to order a B40 Lyre 13 since everyone here seems to approve of it and it seems to give me the resistance and control that i will need.
Also is the 13 series profile 88 by default or do i have to specify it? Like on the weinermusic site it comes together but on wwbw, you can only choose profile 88 or series 13 or traditional.
Post Edited (2011-08-18 23:55)
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Author: Ed
Date: 2011-08-19 02:34
I had the opportunity to try the masters as I mentioned above.
I thought that it was very good with a nice resonance and response. It was very even and smooth. I liked it better than most Vandorens I have tried. It did play a bit sharp overall (similar to the non 13 series) and would require a longer barrel, tuning rings or at least pulling out.
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Author: yearsofwisdom
Date: 2011-08-19 18:25
That's probably a bad thing for me.... my instrument is very old so i am already very sharp. If I did choose a masters, should i take the CL5 or the CL4?
I think i'm going to just take the b40 lyre howver but the knowledge about the masters would be interesting
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Author: Clarimeister
Date: 2011-08-19 20:02
I also did very much like the sound that the Vandoren Masters Mouthpieces produced. However, it got a bit resistant in the altissimo and upper clarion for articulation and whatnot. Had to use way more air than I was used to with other mouthpieces, and this was with more than one. I play a Greg Smith 1++ and love it, but theyre way more expensive, and custom mouthpieces should probably only be considered if you're willing to spend the money for them. But very worth it. But I don't think you can go wrong with the Masters, but they were a little resistant to my taste.
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Author: yearsofwisdom
Date: 2011-08-19 20:17
Which one did you happen to use Clarimeister? and what are the differences between the CL5 and CL4? I prefer a darker, more focused sound with good resistance.
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Author: Clarimeister
Date: 2011-08-20 03:44
To me, the CL5 was a bit darker and focussed than the CL4. But I liked the CL4 better because it had more resonance and was clearer, which is what I like. But if you're looking for dark and focussed I would probably definitely say the CL5 would be one you'd like. CL5 needs slightly softer reeds than the CL4.
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Author: yearsofwisdom
Date: 2011-08-20 17:16
I see, but both cl4 and cl5 are much better in sound than the b40 lyre?
also which one would you say has more resistance?
also what do you mean resonance and clearer? if the cl5, is focused, wouldn't that make it clearer?
also, would this be a problem if i'm already sorta sharp with a m30 13 mouthpiece?
also, where is the cheapest place to get this masters mp right now?
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Author: Clarimeister
Date: 2011-08-20 18:19
I have never played a B40Lyre so I couldn't tell you. But I did like them better than the M30, B45, 5RV and 5RVLyre, M13 and Lyre and M15.
I would probably say the CL5 has more resistance resulting in a darker sound. The thing I did not like about both of them is the amount of resistance there is going into the altissimo with articulation.
My definition of those terms are probably different from yours. It's a matter of taste and what you think is dark, warm, resonant, clear, bright, etc. Clarity to me is more overtones, and more ring to the sound, not necessarily brighter, maybe a little bit, but not so much for me. Definitely not edgy, I believe edgy and bright are too different things.
If you are already sorta sharp with the 13 series, then it may be a problem cause I believe the Masters are pitched higher. However nothing a barrel can't solve, but then again that costs more money. But, you never know until you try. Since the chamber and bores are different from ordinary Vandorens, it may work to your advantage and maybe in tune. You never know.
If you don't care about trying a few out at once, (which I really recommend you do) then 1StopClarinet has them the cheapest I've found. Otherwise Muncy Winds I believe now stocks them, so you can give them a call for a trial on them for not that much more that 1StopClarinet.
Hope this helps you, and remember that I'm just one person, and the opinions of other will vary from mine.
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