 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: moolatte
Date: 2011-08-16 05:47
When I listen to professionals, or especially when I went to TTUBOC this past summer, I was in the first band, and many of the clarinets were all-staters.
I felt inferior because they all had such nice tones and their sound response was instant. Me? What do I sound like? Well...
First, here's my setup:
M13 Lyre Vandoren mouthpiece, currently on a Rico Reserve Classic reed with a Bonade ligature, and I'm using a 66mm barrel from my old Normandy 4 clarinet because it helps with sound response. I may need a different mouthpiece and or barrel setup. The barrel works somewhat, but it doesn't aide in keeping the pitch from drooping, which I discovered from testing the barrel from my A clarinet on my Bb today. The mouthpiece? I don't know if it has anything to do with the problem below.
I realized that I don't have any recordings of how I sound, but I can make one tomorrow when people aren't sleeping.
When I blow into the clarinet and tongue, there's no pop in the beginning of the sound. This is the order the sound comes in: You hear the tongue hit the reed, but nexts comes a brush of air, and then you hear the tone, but the articulation wasn't as articulate as you'd expect a professional to have. For some notes, especially on the right hand, I can get something similar to what I want, but it's not a pop like I'd like to hear.
I suspect the barrel has something to do with response. But I want to hear something from others, what's your personal experience? And I don't know if it makes a difference, but if you're going to suggest a barrel, but does the fact that I'm always 20 cents flat because of the M13 Lyre mouthpiece and that I need at 65mm barrel to stay in tune need to be known?
tl;dr, if you must, M13 Lyre mouthpiece and/or Normandy 4 barrel not enough. What's a good direction to go?
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2011-08-16 07:33
Unless there's something wrong - meaning damage - to your specific mouthpiece, the solution to your problem is not in the mouthpiece or the barrel. Assuming that your instrument is in good mechanical working order, the two areas in which you'll need to look for a solution are your choice of reeds and your technique.
What does your teacher say about this? Reeds that are the wrong strength or poorly balanced/adjusted can make clean articulation much more difficult, so that if your technique isn't secure, you'll have a lot of trouble correcting things (or discovering the corrections) if the reeds you're using aren't responsive. But in the end good technical control will overcome any but the most extreme equipment-related issues, even all but the most unplayable reeds.
There are signals in your post that your approach to articulation still needs to develop. For one thing, your tongue doesn't - shouldn't - in general "hit" the reed. The air should begin before, not after the tongue leaves the reed (but generally not by producing an audible hiss or rushing sound). There's been so much posted on the BB about articulation that there's not much point in rehashing it here. You should go back through the archives. But someone, ideally your teacher, should be in the best position to listen to you first-hand and diagnose what is probably a combination of several causes for your articulation difficulties.
Karl
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2011-08-16 10:15
Well the first step was realizing that there is a difference that you want to shoot for.
For me, the solution is AIR, AIR, AIR !!!!!
By that I mean you need to literally push a more focused, thin, quick stream of air (by pushing I literally mean with your abs as if you were trying to relieve a moment of constipation - sorry for that analogy). It is the steady, quickly moving stream of air that will produce the 'sound' you are looking for.
As for articulation. It is the act of the tongue LEAVING the reed that produces the sound NOT hitting of the reed. In fact there is a Karl Leister master class in which he insists starting notes of the first Brahms Sonata without any tongue at all.
......................Paul Aviles
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2011-08-16 10:49
Your sound is mostly due to your concept of tone. On your equipment, on my equipment, you will sound like you sound, and I will sound like I sound. I might have to work harder to get that sound on yours, but the outcome will be similar.
Equipment makes it only easier, not possible to sound beautiful.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2011-08-16 13:21
Listen at length to the timbre you wish to develop, which for me would mean listening to Harold Wright, et al, .
richard smith
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Author: luca1
Date: 2011-08-16 14:56
I think David is spot on. That was been my experience at any rate. Years ago whilst in the performance department at my university, I remember fellow students dropping into my practice room saying "wow ... how do you get that tone ...what's your set up ...etc" I offered them my horn and they always sounded the same...I played theirs and again sounded like me (or at least pretty close). It really is about tonal concept, and what's going on in the mouth & throat area. I advocate listening to the greats too as Richard Smith suggests ... but I know those who busted into my practice room also listened to the "greats" but without much result.... the other two suggestions I'd make is listen to great singers, and as Paul says, use more Air Support.
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Author: DougR
Date: 2011-08-16 18:18
I took lessons for probably twenty years before anyone said anything to me about the shape of the oral cavity. But changing that, plus getting my air going as Paul outlines above, changed everything for me. So I'll offer this as a possible thing to try:
Tongue is broad and flat in the mouth, touching the back, upper, lower, top and bottom molars. Tongue is also arched in the mouth, as if you're saying the word "Disney." (This helps focus the airstream.) Tip of tongue is sort of hovering as close to mouthpiece tip and reed as possible, without actually touching them. (Joe Allard's teaching compared the optimum oral cavity shape to pronouncing the syllables "eeee," "ing," "year," and, later on in his teaching career, "Disney.")
Now, with that exact internal oral shaping, and that air, play a nice open G and see how you sound. Try for a MUCH stronger, more forceful airstream than you're used to. (If you choke the reed shut with correct forceful air pressure, you need a slightly harder reed.)
And if you're accustomed, as I was for years, to "voicing" each note with your throat or soft palate or tongue, STOP IT, and then play a scale or a passage [particularly over the break, or across registers] and see what you get. I "think" what you'll have is whatever natural sound you get with your horn, mouthpiece, barrel, and reeds.
As a bonus, try all that double-lip. The sound using double-lip ought to be pretty darn good, and you can elect either to continue to play double-lip or just use it as a reference to shoot for.
All this works for me, though as always YMMV. Good luck.
Post Edited (2011-08-16 20:59)
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2011-08-16 18:39
You mentioned a barrel from a Normandy 4 clarinet. What kind of clarinet are you currently using? It's possible that this barrel really isn't the best match for your current clarinet. When you selected the M13 Lyre, did you try it with your new clarinet and its barrel, the new clarinet with the Normandy barrel, or your old clarinet?
You mentioned the pitch drooping. Do you find that you have to "close up" or make your throat tense to keep the pitch where it should be? If so, the problem just might be the reed.
I agree with KDK. Make sure the reeds you use are those that work best for you, not too hard or too soft. Make sure they've been broken in correctly and make sure they're balanced. I've found that Rico Reserves don't usually need extensive adjustments, but many do require balancing. This isn't difficult, and if you're not sure how to do, your teacher should be able to help you.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2011-08-16 19:38
Paul said it right! Air is the answer which is why some people sound good on any equipment! Bill Green said it takes at least ten years to learn how to blow on the saxophone but it may take less for the clarinet. Good luck!
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2011-08-16 19:50
I don't have anything additional to offer on top of the great advice you've already received but I need to add what others have hinted at. Provided there's nothing actually wrong (i.e. broken or damaged) with your equipment, don't have so much focus on it. It shouldn't get in the way of your technique but rather it should support it and allow flexibility. It should feel quite natural and allow you to produce YOUR sound.
Your sound is like your fingerprint, don't be jealous of anyone else's, but be happy with yours because nobody has a sound like yours.
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Author: William
Date: 2011-08-17 14:44
From your description of how your sound responds when you articulate, I'll just "go way out on a limb" and suggest you try a half-strength softer reed to see if the sound responds without the hiss and does not "droop" after beginning. Use the above suggestions for oral "voicing" which I characterize as a cat's "hiss" (that is actually Tom Ridenours description) which focuses your air stream towards the tip of your mouthpiece more efficiently than if you tongue is lying flat. Another suggestion, place your tongue on the reed before you actually start to blow air. This build-up of initial pressure will help make your articulation cleaner, hopefully without the tttthhhhh at the beginining.
Another random "shot in the dark" suggestion, if your reed IS too hard, you may be biting to make the reed respond and then loosening to make the sound louder--which may cause the "droop". Try playing without the upper teeth on the beak, in other words, "double lip" for a while. This will configure your embouchure to use uniform upper and lower pressure and your reed should resonate clearly. If it does not, then you ARE using reeds that are way too hard--try a whole strength softer, ex. go from a #4 to a #3. Or softer, if that doesn't work. Then, when you develop the strength in your embouchure, try increasing the reed strength by 1/2 increments until you achieve the tambre you seek. Hint--many amature clarinetists rely too strongly on reed strength for the improvement of their sound quality rather than consistancy of air, oral voicing and embouchure strength. Don't go "too strong" too soon.
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