 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ttay1122
Date: 2011-07-08 00:17
I normally play a Yamaha CSG-H, but I have a 250 for back up, outdoor purposes. I was wondering if adding a Backun or Moba barrel would make much of an improvement to the tone. Unfortunately there aren't any local dealers that carry just barrels. I'd like to try some but I want to know what I want before I buy.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2011-07-08 01:01
Why not contact Backun Musical Services directly to ask them about it? THey are very helpful.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: Bobby McClellan
Date: 2011-07-08 01:23
I second Jeff, call them and talk directly to them about it. they have a great trial period to try them out.
Bobby JJAlbrecht wrote:
Bobby M. McClellan
Flowood, MS
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Author: Bobby McClellan
Date: 2011-07-08 01:23
I second Jeff, call them and talk directly to them about it. they have a great trial period to try them out.
Bobby
Bobby M. McClellan
Flowood, MS
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2011-07-08 02:32
I've found that a barrel can DEFINITELY change the tone of any instrument, including a student instrument. I think (and I've tested with various instruments I've tried over the years) that a good mouthpiece and barrel can help transform nearly any student instrument to a very good sounding one. The thing you won't be able to overcome however, is the tuning/resistance from note to note.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: gwie
Date: 2011-07-08 04:32
I've handed out a couple of the Protege barrels to students on the Buffet B12, Yamaha 250 and 450, and a couple other student-level instruments.
Good improvements in reducing stuffiness, adding some nice color to the sound, and not playing quite as sharp as the stock barrels in some cases.
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2011-07-08 06:55
I have a Backun MoBa barrel in Grenadilla and though I bought it specifically for my vintage Normandy, it works well with the plastic clarinets I use outdoors--not surprising, since they all have a .584" bore.
Since the 250 is your outdoors horn, may I respectfully suggest auditioning some non-wooden barrels that can go outdoors without worries? I have both a Ridenour Ivorolon barrel and a Doctors Products Power Barrel--both of these can add satisfying depth to the tone of a plastic clarinet. The Ridenour barrel, in particular, works wonders for the tone of my Vito 7214.
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2011-07-08 11:10
I use a Ridenour fat barrel on my Jupiter 631 plastic instrument together with a Vandoran MP resulting in a full bodied sound. Different of course from a wood or ebonite sound though but still good enough for outdoor playing and concert band. The Ridenour barrel is a bit tight to get onto my Schrieber 6010 but the result is the same. A nice pure sound.
Skyfacer
Post Edited (2011-07-08 11:12)
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Author: William
Date: 2011-07-08 14:53
"still good enough for outdoor playing and concert band."
I am bothered by this elitist concept that one should reserve their best efforts and quality of performance for indoor or orchestral events only. If you truely care about music, then you should make every effort to play to the best of your ability with your best equipement at ALL TIMES--not just for those *special* events in socially *approved* ensembles. Personally, I use my pro clarinets--R13's, Prestige bass--regardless of playing with our BJSO (indoors or out) or with our Capitol City Band's Rennebohm Park shelter Thursday evening concert series. The audiences--wheither upper class or elderly nursing home residents--deserve music (classics or pop) played at it's very best, no matter in the concert hall or outdoor park setting.
Clarinets--by the way--are much more durable than a lot of people think. If it is comfortable for you, it is also comfortable for your instruments and any slight temperature difference will not cause damage--nor will direct sunlight. I think that "outdoor" clarinets are unnecessary baggage--use your best and play your best, ALWAYS.
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Author: Philcoman
Date: 2011-07-08 20:11
William, maybe this is getting off topic, but I don't think it's an elitist attitude that keeps the "best equipment" indoors -- it's merely caution. Maybe my pro instrument IS tough enough to withstand exposure to the weather, but I had to sock away the pennies a long time to get it and I'm not going to test that theory on MY $2500 horn, thank you very much.
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Author: ttay1122
Date: 2011-07-09 05:02
I use an outdoor instrument because sometimes when you are outdoors for long periods of time your going to need to protect yourself with sunblock and bug spray. I don't like the thought of putting sunblock covered fingerprints on my $2900+ Instrument nor would I want my instrument to be exposed to deet from the bug spray to start destroying my instrument. It's a simple precaution many people prefer to take and I am one of them. Although thank you for your concerns. I was asking about barrels, not about using equipment outdoors.
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Author: William
Date: 2011-07-09 15:40
What I disagree with is the attitude that an inferior instrument is "good enough for ourtdoor playing and concert band [implying indoor or out]". I feel that you--as an accomplished musician--should always try to bring your best to every gig and not discriminate between classical or orchestral performances and those of "concert bands", indoors or out. Of course, I understand trying to protect your investiment but I have been using my $7000 Buffet Prestige low C bass clarinet for ourdoor band concerts ever since I bought it 7 yrs ago and it still looks just like new. In fact, none of my six pro Buffet clarinets has ever suffered any weather related damage--and I play them everywhere: orchestra, band jazz combo, theatre, church, indoors or out.....but never in rain or freezing cold. I just think it''s proper to bring my best to every gig and to that end, I use the best equipement I own. To think otherwise is both elitist and discriminatory as well as unprofessional.
As to the subject of this posting, the order of effectiveness for affecting the sound of any clarinet is: mouthpiece, reed, ligature (especially response), barrel and bell. Basically, the farther you are from your mouth, the lesser the effect produced. Most mouthpiece and barrel craftsmen offer trial periods and will work with you to aide in your selection. The one's that I like are, Walter Grabner, Gregory Smith and Clark Fobes. As for internet music stores, I've had good dealings with the BrassWind WoodWind and Muncy music stores. They both offer a variety of barrel and mouthpiece products with generous trial periods. In spite of my above rant, I hope this additional commentary will help your search. Good luck...
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2011-07-09 17:34
FWIW, some people tend to believe or argue that the barrel is more of a compliment to a mouthpiece than to a clarinet. Meaning, some people believe that a good mouthpiece/barrel combination should be considered independant of what clarinet you choose to use it on. For example, Greg Smith sells hand selected barrels that are chosen to compliment his MOUTHPIECE. So he's matching barrel to mouthpiece, NOT to clarinet.
I'm not sure how I feel about this personally, but based on this theory, if you find a barrel you like a whole lot, you SHOULD be able to move that barrel and your mouthpiece from clarinet to clarinet and almost always hear improvement over the stock barrel.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2011-07-09 18:30
afalexi, I've found that it's true--a good mouthpiece and barrel combo is very likely to work well on most any clarinet.
It can be an interesting exercise to swap stock barrels and bells among instruments other than the ones with which they were equipped. I have a heavy bakelite bell from an early '50s Noblet Normandy that makes an audible improvement on my Ridenour Lyrique 576BC.
If they haven't already, the original poster should audition their CSG-H barrel on their YCL-250. You never know, the results could be just what they had in mind.
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2011-07-09 22:55
William , what you are referring to as "inferior instruments" are often a lot better than you may realize. I have both good quality wooden Clarinets, and also a Ebonite and two plastics (a Jupiter & Schrieber). I am constantly being impressed with the overall sound quality of the plastic ones when matched up to a good mouthpiece and barrel. The quality of these type of clarinets have come a long way since the 70s.
I challenge anyone to sit down and hear me play on both wood (granadilla)
Ebonite (hard rubber ) and also plastic.
What you will hear are different types of sound quality but all excellent in their own way.
I note that you have mentioned very cold weather. Here in Australia we seldom get those conditions but we do get very hot weather in the form of what we call "heat waves' plus hot winds as a bonus. Several months ago I played at an outdoor wedding. The temperature was 102 deg F plus wind. Instrument used, my trusty Jupiter. And I was told I sounded very good.(was using CD backings Minus One recordings)
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2011-07-10 08:53
I'm with Barry all the way on the last post. I also have clarinets in wood, ebonite, and plastic and use them all for specific purposes--not because they're "good enough" for the job at hand, but because they're the best instrument I have been able to find for the job at hand.
I'm always looking for ways to make what I have even better...on all of my clarinets I use a carefully matched reed/mouthpiece/lig and often an aftermarket barrel. And I maintain all of the instruments to the same high standards, at significant expense. Even my "lowly" Vito 7214 has been treated to tone hole modifications, tuning adjustments, and the same exacting level of regulation as my fine wooden instruments. It is a delight to play and sounds great to my ears.
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Author: William
Date: 2011-07-10 16:05
Many of you are missing my main point and that is the "good enough" attitude and implied discrimination between performance expectations for "serious' vs "pop" concert events. I am simply saying that the musician should always play their best, no matter orchestra or concert band, serious of pop. To not do so is unprofessional--same as showing up late, not being properly attired or being "under the influence" of drugs or alcohol. Not so much about equipement but more about attitude and musical responsiblity.
FWIW, in high school, I played on a Selmer Bundy at our State's WSMA Music Festival for two years (56 & 57( receiving First Division Ratings and also participated in two All State Festivals held at the University of Wisconsin in Madison. The second year, I auditioned well enough to earn second chair, first clarinet in the "massed band"--nearly 100 highschoolers...lol. Everyone "back then" always commented on my nice sound and were surprised to learn that I was playing on a Bundy with Rico reeds. My "secret"--the best pro mouthpiece I could find at that time, a Selmer HS* with an old "Magic Window" ligature. That is one reason why I think the mouthpiece is the first change one should make in searching for an improved tone quality--other than try to sound like someone you admire, for me, Benny Goodman. When I was able to afford my first "professional" clarinet, I never played that old Bundy again simply because I always wanted to sound my best, no matter what ensemble I was with. I still think that desire for unconditional excellance was the correct choice for me, then and now.....and also for you. Cheers
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2011-07-10 17:26
Thanks for the follow-up, William; that clears things up.
For the record, I've invested over $10,000 in my collection of instruments, all in an effort to have the best equipment available at all times. This figure does not include the shoe boxes full of mouthpieces, barrels, ligatures, reed-fixing gear, an aftermarket bell, and other accessories.
In regards to your Bundy setup, I think it must be said that back in the day, Selmer mouthpieces and Rico reeds were light-years better than they are today. I'm not surprised you were very successful using them.
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Author: oca
Date: 2011-12-09 05:40
Has there been any further testing with plastic instruments?
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2011-12-10 17:18
I have no problem with the idea of switching materials from plastic or rubber onto wood and vice versa.
Sean likes Fobes, some folks like Segal clarinetconcepts (me), and other like Backun or Ridenour, etc. Right now I have Chedevilles on my clarinets....tomorrow I might use something else.
Danger major OT segue:
I have rifles with a synthetic stocks, and one w. walnut....gee, I wonder if I used Grenadilla, would it shoot better??? hmm.
anyway, disclaimer time: I make and sell barrels.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Sean.Perrin
Date: 2011-12-10 17:57
It's all very personal. My reasons for liking Fobes shouldn't really have much to do with your decision, to be honest.
TRY THEM ALL!!! All the barrels you can!
Founder and host of the Clarineat Podcast: http://www.clarineat.com
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