 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: TJTG
Date: 2011-05-26 19:30
Hello Everybody!
I've been practicing a good deal lately to try and solve a problem when I play.
As I am playing in the upper register, probably a G (above the staff) and above, there are phantom notes just as I start playing my fundamental. For instance, when I play an A, I hear the slightest D (from below the staff) starting the note.
I play on V12's, Hawkins R, and a R13 A (this also happens on my Bb, but it is more prevalent here)
I'll probably get some guidance in my next lesson, but its the summer so they're a little less frequent.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2011-05-26 19:40
Is it only when you begin a note in the upper clarion?
Do you tongue the beginning of each note? What happens when you don't tongue the beginning of the note?
Is it also when tonguing repeated articulations in the upper clarion?
My first guess is that your embouchure is not completely set and ready before you play.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: TJTG
Date: 2011-05-26 19:55
It happens in the clarion and altissimo
Whether it's tongued and not it sometimes response this way, but not consistently.
A great example of where it happens consistently is the middle of the Klezmer section of Brahms Quintet. The Eb to D, then jump to that high altissimo G which works down to the D. (m. 69/70)
Post Edited (2011-05-26 19:56)
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Author: claaaaaarinet!!!!
Date: 2011-05-26 22:23
This "grunting" is a problem on most R13 A clarinets, Pines of Rome being the classic excerpt where this tends to occur. Aside from working on your voicing, etc., another (though more drastic) thing you can do is have a good repair tech switch out your register tube for a slightly shorter one. Brannen in Evanston, IL, does this and it tends to really help this problem. When I was chosing an A back in the day, I tried 5 of them checking for this particular problem. The two I liked most both had the shorter tube.
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Author: TJTG
Date: 2011-05-26 22:58
Thanks for the advice. I remember hearing about this a while back and totally forgot about it.
Is this still a problem today? Or just older instruments?
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Author: TJTG
Date: 2011-06-24 15:48
Thanks for the tube info. I tried my teachers instrument, which had that modification, and it had wonderful response.
And I just had the modification done to my clarinet yesterday. Its amazingly responsive. Thanks again.
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Author: BflatNH
Date: 2011-06-25 02:52
How has the new tube affected the intonation over the registers?
Has anyone tried the Galper register tube & key version? (Is it still available?)
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Author: Buster
Date: 2011-06-25 03:39
Never tried it but the "Hasty" insert, from an acoustic standpoint, has merit. I'll try to find some information on the web and link it. Basically it is a small "needle" in the register pad that allows the register key to open sufficiently for a more "voice-able" throat Bb, but helps eliminate the grunt which can arise if the register vent is too open.
I think someone here sells the Galper vent, but they can speak up.
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Author: mrn
Date: 2011-06-25 16:06
I had this problem on my R-13 A, too. My solution was to add some additional cork to the register key ("bumper cork," under the spot where you place your thumb, I mean) to keep it from opening up too far. That made a huge difference. You might try that first, since it's "minimally invasive" and easily reversed.
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Author: Buster
Date: 2011-06-25 17:47
Michael,
I actually used a post-it note under my register key once when playing the Pines of Rome solo. I was in a small, very "live" hall, and felt like I was working counter-productively to place the clarion A's at the dynamic level and color I wanted out in the audience. This gave me an extra bit of comfort-ability needed in that setting.- I removed it about halfway through the solo. (Perhaps a bit of a selfish approach, but safety first! Same idea as yours, but even more easily reversed.)
For those fighting the grunt.... embrace it! When you feel the clarion A dropping down the 12th, let it happen- in fact exaggerate it and play it louder. If you allow yourself to learn the tactile feeling of an under-blown A5, your mind can learn to adjust and avoid it automatically. I know it sounds like it shouldn't work, but our brains are smarter than we think. (god that last statement sure sounds like a deep koan of sorts)
-Jason
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Author: Buster
Date: 2011-06-25 21:45
OK just when I think I have "invented a new technique" to learn the clarinet (that is a joke by the way:-)
http://test.woodwind.org/Databases/lookup.php/Klarinet/1998/10/000872.txt
What can we learn from this?
1. Tony can write a hell of a lot better than I.... or is it then I?
2. The facts about the acoustics of the clarinet exist. The ways of addressing them are personal; we can only present the options of how they can be dealt with.
3. We can't actually tell anybody WHAT to do, or HOW to do it.
I'll go sulk for a while now
-Jason
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Author: TJTG
Date: 2011-06-25 21:52
The intonation isn't all that hard to compensate for. When I was trying it out at my tech guy's shop I was taken aback somewhat, but after playing for a couple hours on it, nothing is too wildly different. Its been more subtle changes in voicing.
Strangely enough, the Bb now feels less responsive than my A at times.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2011-06-26 03:03
It's not just common to R13's, I've experienced it on horns from several other makers. It stopped after I went to a different mouthpiece. I didn't know about the register tube, worth a trial on other horns as well.
Tony F.
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Author: oca
Date: 2012-01-04 04:56
I don't know whether to say 'you're welcome' or...
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Author: Buster
Date: 2012-01-04 05:20
...or "I would prefer not to." -thus spake 'che Bartleby.
I'll be funnier next time.
-J
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2012-01-04 07:43
I'm using the shorter tube on my A clarinet. What a difference it made.
Another trick I do to the Bb is adjust the thumb octave key. Have a repairman adjust it using a cork pad, thinned down and bend the octave key as close as you can to the tube hole until you start hearing a hiss of air , then back up the key slightly. You can do both, replace the tube and bend the key, however if something goes wrong like nicking the chamber of the horn when removing the tube and the octave key breaking or the screw and post getting slightly bent. Once you watch a good repairman do this you should be able to do it yourself in the future.
Works pretty well for me.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2012-01-04 08:16
Whether each register tube modification works depends on other things. First it has to be compared with a specific clarinet/mouthpiece/reed setup. Some "combinations", playing R13 A clarinets, don't have the problem. The shorter tube (i.e. shortening the tube) can definitely help in some cases. What I found to be the best solution (not perfect, because no solution is perfect), is a suggestion I got from a repairer who used to work for Buffet. He suggested replacing the tube with a tube from a Buffet RC Bb clarinet, reamed to 2.8mm and flared to 3.0mm at the outer end.
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