 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: fernie51296
Date: 2011-06-09 18:06
im thinkin about switchin to double lip...anybody else use it? any comments on it would be grately appreciated!
Fernando
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2011-06-09 18:37
I don't but it has many advantages if you can get used to it. I don't feel it's necessary to get a beautiful sound and control but other than getting used to it I don't think there are any disadvantages either, maybe a little pain is all. ESP
eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: fernie51296
Date: 2011-06-09 18:40
it definetly seems to sound better..makes it kinda hard to hold the clarinet though.
Fernando
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Author: fernie51296
Date: 2011-06-09 18:41
it definetly seems to sound better..makes it kinda hard to hold the clarinet though.
Fernando
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Author: salzo
Date: 2011-06-09 18:58
I switched later on in life, been playing double lip for five years.
For me, there are some issues playing double lip (as there are for single lip), but I find it allows much more flexibility with color, intonation, phrasing- it basically makes it easier for me to do what I want to do with the music.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2011-06-09 19:01
There's lots to say about double lip, and it's been discussed many times. Click on Search at the top and enter "double lip" with the quotes.
More than 50% of top players use single lip, but many of the finest players use(d) double lip: Harold Wright, Richard Stoltzman, Gino Cioffi, Ralph McLane, Reginald Kell, Louis De Santis (Bonade's successor in Philadelphia and the player Robert Marcellus singled out as having the finest tone), Kalmen Opperman and most of his students, Keith Stein and most of his students.
It feels unsteady at first, particularly for first space F and the C above it, but there are embouchure strengthening exercises to get past that. For me, double lip creates better tone, and, on low clarinets (bass and contra), keeps my brain from getting scrambled by the vibration.
For more, read Keith Stein, The Art of Clarinet Playing http://www.vcisinc.com/clarinet.htm item C1718.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2011-06-09 19:23
Yup. Part of the process is building up a callus, like you have on your lower lip, as well as strength in all the muscles around your mouth. I used to use a small piece of (genuine) chamois, cut from a very old swab, over my upper teeth.
There are commercial products, such as the Bay Lip Ease Teeth Cushion http://www.wwbw.com/Bay-Lip-Ease-Teeth-Cushion-472916-i1413183.wwbw, but you can easily make one yourself. In an emergency, I've used several thicknesses of newspaper.
When I sit at the computer, I take a junker mouthpiece with an old reed, plus a barrel, and hold it between my lips. With the reed down, I can do it for 30 seconds. With the reed up around a minute.
Ken Shaw
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Author: sonicbang
Date: 2011-06-09 20:27
I've never felt the necessity to switch to double lip, but I use it when practising long tones at the beginning of the warming up. I can play after that with the same feel but more stability.
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Author: sonicbang
Date: 2011-06-09 21:34
I use double lip while warming up because it helps to play with relaxed embochure and it keeps me to be in good trim. In an odd way I have no problems with the highest notes, but I feel double lip insecure when playing difficult technical parts. I think of the Bozza or Tomasi concerto here or some parts of the Spohr concertos.
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Author: ThatPerfectReed
Date: 2011-06-09 21:55
Two thoughts.
Listening to the beauty of the late and great Harold Wright has inspired me to at least try double lip.
As Keith Stein wrote in the aforemtioned book, and (also the late and great) Kal Opperman discussed, at least trying double lip embouchure, if not staying with it, can offer use to the single lip player once they've tried double lip.
Speaking for myself, I find, after having tried it--though I switched back to single lip, I've incorporated aspects of it into my single lip playing that, at least in my humble opinion, have helped me.
For example, my top lip is now more curved to be almost under my top teeth. This has helped me not only cause the nicer sounds associated with the opening of the upper mouth palate consistent with double lip playing, but I have found it to improve the lightness and speed of articulation.
Someone much more knowledgable than I about the clarinet once said that nothing bad can come of a single lip player trying double lip for a while.
Having tried, even though I'm not prepared to stick with it right now, I not only agree, but suggest the temporary change helped me.
Allow me to refer you to what I think is a really good 2 part series by Tom Ridenour on the subject matter, on youtube.
The 1st of the 2 videos is at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWP22w28Jak&playnext=1&list=PL58B4E4DDDB0D8A25. Accessing this link will no doubt position you to access the second video on this series.
If nothing else, Tom suggests alternative finger positions that help you deal with the difficulty of playing double lip on notes where less of the fingers balance the clarinet, and more pressure is placed on the embouchure to effect such balance.
Good luck! Let us know about your experiences, and that you've gleaned from them!
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Author: salsacookies
Date: 2011-06-09 22:35
I used enough double lip while playing bassoon. It was nice to go back to normal embouchure for a change. I don't think I could play like that on a clarinet.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2011-06-10 00:05
I've been doing this since college - 1976. I play with a single lip for sax playing.
It can change your muscle formation. A lot of old time musicians played that way. You can try it for a few minutes a day, until you are able to add time to your practice. At first you will have some pain. As time goes on minutes will add up to hours.
Remember that it's not for everyone, but practicing part of the time will surely strengthen the upper muscles and help produce the sound you are looking for.
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Author: fernie51296
Date: 2011-06-10 00:24
Well even though its painful i cant get pass the nice sound..is their another fingering for left hand F? thats the only note that my mouthpiece keeps slipping out.
Fernando
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Author: ThatPerfectReed
Date: 2011-06-10 01:02
Fernando:
To both address your question and correct a mistake I made prior, Tom Ridenour's youtube video about double lip embouchure comes in 3, not 2 parts.
In the 3rd part, at about 6:56, Tom talks about special fingers to deal with double lip playing. Perhaps you may find some suggestions there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E03zHygaXhU&feature=related
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Author: fernie51296
Date: 2011-06-10 01:10
watched the videos and the fingerings work great. thank you very much!
Fernando
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Author: Claire Annette
Date: 2011-06-11 14:45
Like Salzo, I switched to double lip later in life. It took me almost a year to become completely comfortable with it and I didn't make the switch all at once. I eased into it by using it only on legato passages in the chalemeau and clarion at first.
Bob said: "It can change your muscle formation." I absolutely agree. For this reason, I consider myself lucky. If I become fatigued while playing double lip, I switch to single lip for a while to somewhat rest the DL embouchure.
I personally feel that double lip has improved my overall sound and I also feel that I get more playing mileage (endurance-wise) out of DL playing.
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Author: salzo
Date: 2011-06-11 15:56
Another aspect of clrinet playing that I find much easier is tonguing.
When I played single lip I could tongue rapid, but I had to resort to rapid tonguing techniques that I do not have to do when playing DOUBLE lip (actually, I cant do those things when playing double). Whether I am ariculating a series of whole notes at 132, or sixteenth notes at the same tempo, my tongue position and stroke is the same, just faster.
Post Edited (2011-06-11 18:37)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2011-06-11 17:07
salzo wrote:
> When I played single lip I could tongue rapid, but I had to
> resort to rapid tonguing techniques that I do not have to do
> when playing single lip...
Is that what you meant to type?
:)
Karl
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Author: salzo
Date: 2011-06-11 18:38
Karl-
I fixed it. Thats twice you have gotten me in less than 24 hours!!
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Author: fernie51296
Date: 2011-06-11 19:06
Im definetly using double lip from now on.. it jus feels alot more natural.
Fernando
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Author: kdk
Date: 2011-06-11 19:32
Obviously, I have entirely too much free time on my hands to be reading all of this. 
Karl
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