 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: karebear4794
Date: 2011-05-15 16:19
I've been playing on a student-level Yamaha for 5 years. I'm planning on playing in college, so I'm looking into professional clarinets. I've priced the Buffet R13, and looked into many Le Blanc's. (mainly the Cadenza). What do you think?
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Author: CuriousClarinet
Date: 2011-05-15 17:33
If you have the option, it would be best to go play test the clarinets you are interested in. Everyone seems to respond differently to each instrument. That said, I've never played a LeBlanc clarinet, I only had the option of trying a professional Yamaha and Buffet R13. I now own the Buffet R13, with the intent of using it into college, so I may be a little biased. But I just wanted to say that the R13 is a good 'standard' professional model. I doubt any college instructor would complain if you had one. I don't know that much about LeBlancs, but it might be a good idea to ask the instructor at the college you want to attend. Some can have good recommendations, or even prefer you have one brand over another.
I really like the Buffet R13, as well as everyone I've let play it =P. It works well for me, but perhaps other's will disagree.
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Author: Bb R13 greenline
Date: 2011-05-15 17:46
i second the above, i have a buffet as well and i have never had a problem with it. I love the sound that i can produce with it. not to say that leblancs arent just as good if not better. i tried the legacy once and it definately was better in some aspects. all in all its what suits you though, you cant go wrong with either brand
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Author: concertmaster3
Date: 2011-05-15 18:26
I'll second the idea of trying as many as you can. I'm not the biggest fan of Buffet (even though I'll be studying with a Buffet oboe artist in the fall). I've tried Yamaha CSVs, Buffet R13s, Toscas and R13 Vintages and other than the Tosca, preferred the CSV for tone and the way it's built.
Go with what you can actually make music with. After trying some flutes out, a flutist that was helping me pick some out said to me "I like this one, because you actually made more of a line with it than the other", and that was using the cheaper of the 2 flutes. I think that should be your ultimate decision in buying the instrument, the one that feels right under your fingers, and allows you to shape the music the way you want.
Good luck!
Ron Ford
Woodwind Specialist
Performer/Teacher/Arranger
http://www.RonFordMusic.com
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2011-05-15 18:27
The standard answer is to try as many clarinets in your price range as possible regardless of brand or model and pick the one you like best. You will be bombarded with suggestions to "just get an R13" but you need to remember that what is popular may not necessarily be the best fit for you. Also make sure that you play several instruments of whatever model you ultimately end up choosing as you may find that the quality will vary wildly from instrument to instrument even if they are all the same model.
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Author: gwie
Date: 2011-05-15 18:31
You can make any sound on any professional clarinet. If you look at the top of the solo and orchestral world, you'll find people playing on just about everything under the sun. Determining which one will work for you is a matter of actually playing each one and seeing what suits you best.
I used to play R-13's, but ended up handing them to one of my students for a set of Yamaha CSG clarinets. I really like the fact that they are lighter and easier to hold up for long rehearsals, and the placement of the pinky keys makes it easier for me to reach them.
It also helps having the Yamaha Atelier only a 20 minute drive away, and I have to thank Gary, Rory, and Jeff in the Buena Park operation for doing an awesome job for me and my students!
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Author: karebear4794
Date: 2011-05-15 20:27
My price range is about 2,000 to 2,500. (lower if possible). Is it still possible to get a good, professional horn in that price range? if so, what kinds?
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Author: concertmaster3
Date: 2011-05-15 20:41
Yamaha (SEV and CSV), Leblanc (Cadenza) and Patricola run just under 2500 brand new. You can find a used R13 for under that price. (I priced at Muncy's, Midwest and WWBW, and am not affiliated with them in any way).
Do some searching here on the classifieds also. Don't rush into it and buy the first clarinet you can afford. If you can get to a shop near your area, try there first, even if it's just to try out different brands. That's how I knew which clarinet I wanted first, before finally buying mine.
Good luck!!
Ron Ford
Woodwind Specialist
Performer/Teacher/Arranger
http://www.RonFordMusic.com
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Author: dtiegs
Date: 2011-05-15 21:22
I'm guessing they are (Used R13) somewhat similar to cars... depends on the condition. You'll never find out until you pick up the instrument yourself...
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Author: CuriousClarinet
Date: 2011-05-15 23:46
>How do you all feel about used R13's? that's the only way I can afford one.
Like dtiegs said, it's really hard to judge a used instrument because they are all in different conditions. I would only buy a used R13 if I could play it in person before commiting to the instrument. I once played a 'so-called' Buffet R13 at a local music store and thought it sounded horrible. To my relief, I was latered told by the repairman that they didn't actually know if it was a R13, because the serial number was so old the Buffet site didn't recognize it.
Just using that as an example as you never know what you'll get until you play it. Just because it is labeled 'R13' doesn't mean it'll actually play well. You could possibly be better off with a plastic student clarinet. IF you buy a used instrument somewhere online, learn as much as you possibly can about the clarinet. Look up the serial number on Buffet's website, know if it has any cracks, or if it needs any repairs, etc.
On the other hand, if you manage to find a 'lightly used' R13, you could get a really good deal! Instruments tend to devalue as soon as they're marked 'used', so if you're lucky and find a R13 that was only used for a year or two (and kept in good condition) you could find a real bargain.
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Author: ddavani
Date: 2011-05-16 01:33
I would typically recommend the Cadenza as it was designed by Backun, however, now that they're being mass produced by Leblanc and Conn-Selmer, I would recommend the R-13 because it's a great product and it's always coming from the same shop, especially when you go to a certified Buffet dealer.
-Dave Davani
http://allclarinet.blogspot.com/
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Author: TianL
Date: 2011-05-16 17:49
gwie (or anyone who owns the CSG's):
you said "I really like the fact that they are lighter and easier to hold up for long rehearsals, and the placement of the pinky keys makes it easier for me to reach them."
Do you mean the left pinky keys? Are the E/B and F#/C# keys longer than the Buffets?
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Author: karebear4794
Date: 2011-05-17 01:34
What about the new yamaha's? I've heard some good things about them, and the YCL-SEV and the YCL - 650 are a little more in my price range..
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Author: concertmaster3
Date: 2011-05-17 01:48
I absolutely love my CSV's. They're extremely consistent, and feel great under the fingers. I bought them separately, one used and one new, and they feel like a matched set. I honestly don't think you could go wrong with one.
Ron Ford
Woodwind Specialist
Performer/Teacher/Arranger
http://www.RonFordMusic.com
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Author: gwie
Date: 2011-05-17 05:33
TianL,
I don't know if they're actually longer, but I find that the positioning of the pinky keys in general on the CSG's make it easier for me to play them without having to stretch my fingers.
The issue some of my colleagues have though, is the left hand C#/G# pinky key on the top joint is a bit closer to the ring finger than the R-13, so it can take some getting used to.
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Author: jbutler ★2017
Date: 2011-05-17 18:49
Is there a possibility that your future college clarinet proffessor can help you chose a quality instrument? That would be my solution especially if entering this coming fall.
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2011-05-17 19:59
I've played on both for long periods of time, both as a student and professionally. In terms of sound, I find them quite different to each other and it's up to you which one you like. The reason I mainly play Buffet now is the keywork; on a Leblanc it goes out of adjustment very easily and quickly, whereas a Buffet is a lot more sound.
That said, I'm talking about Leblancs in the Concerto/Opus era, I don't know about the new models by Backun.
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Author: jbutler ★2017
Date: 2011-05-19 16:45
"on a Leblanc it goes out of adjustment very easily and quickly,"
I've never had that problem. I've played a LeBlanc Ambiance since 2003 and have only changed the upper joint pads to cork. I also changed the bridge key cork to tech cork for stability. All other key corks/felt are original.
It still has the original padding in the lower joint.
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2011-05-19 18:06
Must be just mine then.
However, I tend to agree with Lisa on this matter: http://www.lisasclarinetshop.com/site/epage/73462_800.htm
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2011-05-19 18:36
I keep hearing claims that Buffet has 80-90% of the market but have yet to see anyone actually produce the data to back up that claim. It's definitely not true on a worldwide basis and I have doubts that Buffet's market share is that high even if you look at just the US market.
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Author: jbutler ★2017
Date: 2011-05-19 19:18
@Morrigan
As a repair technician I believe LeBlanc, Selmer, and Yamaha mechanically are capable of holding adjustments just as well as Buffet. I would challenge anyone to base their belief on FACT rather than OPINION with regard to MECHANICS and ENGINEERING: Why does Buffet hold an edge on the other major brands? I await the reply.........from anyone.....offer proof.
jbutler
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Author: clarinettefaerie
Date: 2011-05-21 03:47
Try as many different clarinets as possible. I prefer the tone of (some) Buffets, but I also absolutely love the keywork of Leblancs (fits well under small hands). I tried the Backun-designed Leblancs at the WWBW store in South Bend last September, and the tone was exceedingly bright. If you get a Leblanc, I suggest searching for the Sonata or Concerto, both of which aren't manufactured anymore. Muncy Winds has the Opus though, so keep checking there.
Even though used horns come with a sweet price tag, be careful. I was extremely lucky when I got mine. Some older, used clarinets have some really funky intonation issues, particularly with throat tones.
And please, save yourself the grief. Don't buy off Ebay.
Post Edited (2011-05-21 03:48)
[ Edited - GBK ]
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2011-05-22 13:38
While I can't prove the statistics are true, you by the same token can't prove they are.
I was working on my own experience which is all the proof I need to convince MYSELF of why I play Buffet. Everyone is free to make up their own mind. I was merely giving my experience which is, I believe, what the OP asked for.
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Author: William
Date: 2011-05-22 15:15
I own a set of Leblanc Concerto clarinets that I picked out at the Kenosha, WI. facility (from 100's) with Tom Ridenours assistance. He spent a couple of hours fine tuning each instrument that I finally decided on and I think I have a couple of "good ones"--very well in tune and with absolutely even scales from bottom to top. I played those clarinets for over ten years, but ultimately returned to my old Buffet R13 Bb (bought in 1964) and a Buffet R13A that I discovered and acquired three years ago--also a 1960's clarinet. Why go back??? Two reasons: I like the sound and dynamic flexability of the Buffet clarinet and I find the Buffet keyboard more player friendly, especially the throat tone keys. I enjoy playing the Buffets and am able to play with more "authority" during solos and with more musical expression. As for durability of keywork, both Leblanc and Buffet have held up equally as well without many trips to the repairshoppe. And, FWIW, I absolutely love my Buffet 1193-2 low C Prestige bass clarinet, for it's sound and the durability of it's keywork--very few trips for readjustment, etc.
Final thoughts: my Leblanc Concertos are great small ensemble clarinets, however, for orchestral & wind ensemble mega groups, the Buffets have the power to project. A time and place for both, but right now, I am using my Buffets everywhere.
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2011-05-24 01:59
So far in this thread we've discussed Yamaha's, Leblanc's, and Buffet's. Why is there no love for Selmer clarinets?
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Author: Evans
Date: 2011-05-25 19:10
I would suggest a LeBlanc. Other than a Selmer Bundy I used for a few months when I started, I have only used LeBlancs. For me, they seem to play better, I would recommend them.
Evan B. Stanfill
1971 Noblet 45
Vandoran V360 Mouthpiece
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Author: concertmaster3
Date: 2011-05-25 21:16
Buster wrote:
> karebear- Any of the 4 makers discussed here make fine
> professional level clarinets; the choices between them are more
> subjective in nature. It would be best to make your choice
> based on what you can afford and what your current/future
> teacher and you find to fit you best.
This statement especially is true. Remember, it's YOUR budget and YOUR instrument. Don't get pushed into buying an instrument JUST because they're telling you to do so. Try as many out as you can, and choose from there what fits your price range and plays to your expectations. This probably won't be the last instrument you ever buy, but get the most out of it by picking one that you like and plays well for you.
Good luck again! This is an exciting but sometimes stressful challenge!
Ron Ford
Woodwind Specialist
Performer/Teacher/Arranger
http://www.RonFordMusic.com
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Author: golfnclarinet
Date: 2011-05-27 16:30
I have 1969 R13, my son has OPUS Bb and Selmer 10 A.
They're different but all are good to me.
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Author: salsacookies
Date: 2011-05-27 19:32
I have a Leblanc Rapsodie Bb and an LX A and I love them both. The keywork is sturdy under my fingers and the intonation is near perfect. They work for me. You should get what works for you...not what people have on here and not so much what your teacher recommends...their choice might not play well for you. you might find that you best sound comes from some off-brand horn that is not well known.
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