 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2001-01-22 05:10
I'm considering getting a low C bass. I currently own a Selmer model 35 (low Eb). This is a pretty good horn with a powerful and easy blowing chalumeau. The power and easy response continue over the break up to top space E or top line F where some resistance and stuffiness sets in. This continues up a third or so when the sound opens up a little more and remains fairly free blowing and responsive up into the altissimo. All in all a pretty easy blowing horn with a few resistant notes in the middle clarion. Is this about what I should expect from a low C horn? I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has played both low C and low Eb horns and could describe the playing differences (if any) between the two models.
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2001-01-22 13:45
I have not compared low C and low E-flat versions of the same horn (say, Selmer models 35 and 37 or Buffet models 1183 and 1193), so I can't answer you directly. However, I would think that the extended length should have no significant effect on how high notes such as top-space E and top-line F play. One way for you to find out is to try both instruments at a music store using the same mouthpiece/reed setup.
I am wondering why you are having this stuffiness that you mention. I play a Buffet 1193-2 (low-C) and feel that it plays with clarity throughout its range. (OK, middle of the staff B-flat played with thumb and forefinger could always use improvement.) I used to play an old low E-flat LeBlanc and didn't ever have problems with these notes on it either. Although I think I have a great instrument, I think the Selmers are supposed to be high-quality, too. I'm no expert, but is your instrument well-adjusted (no leaks, etc.) and have you tried other mouthpieces? Maybe the problem isn't inherent to the instrument.
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Author: William
Date: 2001-01-22 14:35
Iv'e been told (by someone who used to play with the NY Phil.) that a quick audition for bass clarinet candidates would be to play a staccato clarion G#. Most clarinetists, when first learning to play the bass, have difficulties with the top-line F to A range of the clarion and is not restricted to Eb or C instruments. Some instruments are less restrictive than others, but a good bass clarinetist can usually play these problem notes with ease, given a good mouthpiece/reed set-up, regardless of the extent of the low range. FYI--my friend plays an old Selmer but says that the new Buffets are great. Good luck.
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Author: Dave Spiegelthal
Date: 2001-01-22 15:16
Most bass clarinets (even top-of-the-line ones) have one or more flaws or misadjustments, even fresh from the factory. Find a good bass clarinet technician (especially one who plays the instrument) and he/she should be able to mitigate (if not entirely eliminate) the minor problems you're experiencing. Frequently these stuffy notes can be solved simply by raising the key heights just a bit.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2001-01-22 18:14
Standard bass clarinet parts go no lower than written low E, at least up through the first third of the 20th century. Since Wagner wrote extensively for bass in A, all modern basses have a low Eb.
Modern scores assume that you will have an instrument that goes to written low C, and most professional quality instruments are made to low C.
However, the extended instruments are heavy and clumsy. They also have less resonance and slower response than the standard ones. Even the very best low C basses (such as the new Buffet model) have unevenness in scale and intonation problems compared with the equivalent standard model bass.
Most orchestral players have a standard bass, which they use for everything that doesn't require the low notes, and a low C model for use where needed.
Selmer has always made excellent basses, with the best ones dating from the 1960 and 70s. They have an even scale and easy response, though they lacked a little in depth of tone. The very finest ones were made in the early part of the century and have two manually operated register keys.
I think the best current instrument is the latest model Buffet. Even better is the Buffet model that was made in the 1970s, which for me has the best sound of any bass.
An excellent compromise is to have Steve Fox make a low C extension for your Selmer. He can make it to be permanent or removable. It's not cheap, but it's a lot less expensive than buying a new horn.
Good luck.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2001-01-22 18:43
William points out that many new players to the bass have difficulty in the middle clarion so this would seem to be something peculiar to the bass. Actually, the middle clarion on my bass is not bad; just not as free blowing and responsive as the rest of the range, which is very good. I believe my bass is in good adjustment but I might take Dave's advice and see about having the key heights raised. My mouthpiece was custom made for me by Charlie Bay and is by far the best mouthpiece I have played, so that's not the problem. The Bay piece is pretty open as far as bass pieces go (.100" tip opening) but I'm considering having Charlie make me one a little more open, say .110" or .115". My main instrument is the baritone sax, a very free blowing insrument, so what I consider stuffy and resistant may be considered within specs. for a bass specialist. I think I will at some point, however, have a good repairman go over the horn with a fine-tooth comb. As far as getting a low C is concerned, I intend to try a number of different horns of different makes but the Selmer model 37 is no. 1 on the list; I just need to be patient and careful to find a particularly good specimen.
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Author: Francesca
Date: 2001-01-22 21:41
I absolutely love my Selmer 37 with the low C extension. I haven't noticed any clumsiness, etc.... The only problem I've encountered is that anything below the low Eb is horribly out of tune. My friend has the latest Buffet, and that problem is eliminated on their model. Either way, you can't go wrong. Have fun with whatever you choose!
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2001-01-23 05:11
In the EQUIPMENT section of this site Clark Fobes gives a very favorable review of the Selmer 37. The only flaw he found was the flat low E. I tried out a 37 before I bought my 35 and I didn't find it any more unwieldy than the low Eb's I had tried but the extra keywork for the low C extension I found a little bewildering so I got the 35. But now I'm thinking I'd like to have those extra three notes if for no other reason than that I'd be able to play the Bach Cello Suites in the written cello keys. With the low Eb horn I'm forced to play the violin transcription (written up an octave and a fifth and sounding down a ninth on the bass clarinet) which puts the horn in some awkward registers. The Cello Suites would seem to be a natural for the bass clarinet but I am unaware of any recordings of them on the bass.
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Author: graham
Date: 2001-01-23 07:22
I'll only add that the F sharp to A clarinet register area is awkward on my instrument. No doubt certain players overcome it and some instruments do not emphasise it, but you are certainly not alone in finding these notes difficult and disappointing.
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Author: graham
Date: 2001-01-23 07:22
I'll only add that the F sharp to A clarinet register area is awkward on my instrument. No doubt certain players overcome it and some instruments do not emphasise it, but you are certainly not alone in finding these notes difficult and disappointing.
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Author: Helen
Date: 2001-01-23 11:05
I understand why you would want the extra three notes as I play a Buffet low Eb bass and there are times when it just isnt low enough.Although I have only played a low C bass once, and that was a loan from a friend, I have to say that it produced a wonderful sound and I fell in love with it immediately. So I may not be a great authority on bass clarinets( I know my sopranos much better), but the Buffet low C is a gorgeous instrument.
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Author: Steve
Date: 2001-01-24 03:41
How does the low C instrument compare to the standard Eb in a sitting position
Is there that much of a height difference?
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2001-01-24 12:51
Of course, they are longer - I would guess about ten inches (50 cm). Whether this makes a difference depends on how tall you are when you are sitting and the height of your chair. I am tall and in the habit of sitting up straight (as are all clarinetists), so, with the peg properly adjusted, I usually have no problems. But on occasions I run into chairs that are so short that need to sit on a book. And I do not hold the instrument in a perfectly vertical position, but with the bell end slightly tilted toward my chair. This provides me a better mouthpiece position even though the neck is already one that puts the mouthpiece more vertical than most do.
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2001-01-24 18:34
I play my low Eb bass with a strap and off to my right side like a tenor or bari sax. I find this position pretty comfortable though I have to be careful not to let the horn rest against my leg as that interferes with the opening of the C#/F#. I'm curious though--do all low C players use the spike or do any just use a strap?
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2001-01-24 21:36
I use both. The peg/spike supports the weight of the instrument and the strap helps balance it so my fingers are freer. Remember, it is a bit heavier than a low-Eb bass. In general, I would assume that most people with low-C instruments at least use the peg.
Another thing to consider is that on the Buffet instrument the C and C# are fingered using the right thumb. (This may not be the same on a Selmer.) But I have yet to find music with a C or C#/Db in it.
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2001-01-24 22:13
Don--the Selmer 37 has the low C#/Db and low C played played with the right thumb. I think the Selmer system is the same as the Buffet. I would think that the spike would free up the right thumb for these low notes but I think I would try to get where I could play just using a strap so I could play standing up. Also, if you play through the Bach Cello Suites (which are alot of fun and a great workout) in the original cello keys you will come across some low Cs and Dbs. This is one of the reasons I'm considering getting a low C bass.
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2001-01-25 13:01
Are you sure the cello suites have low Cs and Dbs? I have the bass clarinet transcription (Michael & Kimberly Davenport, Alea Publishing) of the Bach cello suites and the lowest note I have seen is a D, which makes sense since the lowest note on a cello is a C (our D), I believe. Also, they say they maintain the original keys.
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2001-01-25 20:00
Don--I have the Davenport transcription also. What they have done is transpose the cello score up a whole step so the bass clarinet sounds the same pitches as the cello. But since the Cello Suites are unaccompanied solos there is no need to transpose. I play from the Davenport score transposing down a whole step so I am back in the original written cello keys (on my low Eb bass I have to play low C,C#, and D up an octave). These pieces lay much better in the original cello keys. For instance, the first suite is in the key of G--a very good key for clarinet. But transposed up a whole step to A and it's not such a good key. I reccommend playing these pieces in the original cello keys. Then you'll get to use your low C and C#.
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