 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: jjkimtennis
Date: 2011-05-05 01:16
Hi, I've been playing clarinet for more than 5 years. I'm a high school senior, and I've done everything from honor bands to marching band to chamber groups. And I guess I've had the occasional squeak, but these days, my squeaking is driving me NUTS. I notice that most of my squeaks happen when I play the middle B, C, and D. And it's mostly on my D. In fact, I squeak like 1 out of every 3 times I play a D. It's not a long squeak. It's like a soft squeak that lasts for a millisecond. I just got the pads replaced for the first time in a while, and I'd say the squeaking improved. But the problem's still hanging around on those three notes. I've never been very savvy with equipment, so I don't know if it's my mouthpiece, my reeds, or my embouchure. I mean, my mouthpiece is 6-7 years old, but I doubt it's that. I use Vandoren 3 1/2s, and I guess if anything, it's most likely that it's the reeds. And I'm pretty sure my embouchure's fine. I do have a bad habit when tonguing though. I don't really tongue with the tip. I use an area of the tongue closer to the middle. That's wrong, right? And would that be the culprit?
Any advice is appreciated! Especially about reads and embouchure.
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Author: concertmaster3
Date: 2011-05-05 02:54
It sounds like a leak in the instrument. If the D is doing it, then it sounds like it might be the Ab/Eb pinky key or the sliver key for playing B/F#. That's the only thing that I can think of that would make the D squeak.
Ron Ford
Woodwind Specialist
Performer/Teacher/Arranger
http://www.RonFordMusic.com
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2011-05-05 04:00
Ron Ford is correct, but another thing you should check as a matter of course is your LH throat Ab key (yes, way up at the top of the instrument). The little screw on the top of the key should be adjusted so the A key has just a little play before it lifts the Ab key. This is to compensate for pad and instrument swelling with temperature and humidity changes.
If the swelling is great enough, the instrument may be unplayable. If it's minimal, the problem shows itself mostly in the long-tube notes down low, but the the notes your having trouble with may also be affected.
(I've had students who think that this screw should make immediate contact with the A key, so they screw it down, and later--sometimes weeks later when the weather or they playing schedule has changed, wonder why their horns won't play.)
Hope this helps.
B.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2011-05-05 08:05
Let's just clarify, to be certain we're all thinking of the same notes. Referring to the illustration of C4 next to "The Clarinet BBoard" at the top of the page, are you talking about D5, C5 and B5?
Is this squeak like a chirp at the beginning of the note or a harmonic that appears briefly after the note has started? Does it happen only when you tongue or on notes that you start without your tongue? Does it ever happen when you play one of those notes in the middle of a legato passage?
Does it happen with every reed you try? What mouthpiece are you using? Is there any visible damage to any of the rails (side or tip)? Have you made any changes in your playing or equipment (other than the pad replacement), especially around the time you first started to have trouble with these persistent squeaks?
Assuming you're talking about the notes in mid-staff (B5,C5, D5), those three notes are the most resistant ones on the instrument, so instability because of small leaks anywhere can easily show up as problems on those notes. But you'd expect, if there's a leak causing the squeaking, that you'd have problems with the same fingerings without the register key (E3 - G3). It's possible your tonguing technique is causing the problem, but I doubt that would be limited to three notes and, if you've always tongued that way, it may not be a problem at all. In my experience, squeaks like the ones I think you're describing are caused most often either by mechanical problems on the instrument (as the other two responses have suggested) or by pinching the reed in the process of starting a note - sometimes your embouchure can get involved in destructive ways when you move your tongue.
Tell us more if you can.
Karl
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Author: jjkimtennis
Date: 2011-05-05 23:47
Hi, I'm sorry, I don't know why I said middle B, C, and D haha... I actually meant low B and A. Jeez, I was way off. I must have been tired. Anyways, I looked at my mouthpiece again closely today, and I noticed that I do have some small chips. Nothing very big, but when I run my fingernail along the tip, there is one chip that my nail stops in, as well as a couple that cause some friction, rather than a smooth run. Along the rail, there is another chip that the tip of my thumb nail can rest in. None of these chips are huge, but they are noticeable with a careful look. Can small chips such as these really make a difference? I used this mouthpiece in marching band, and through most of my preteen years (AKA I was pretty careless/clueless about my stuff).
The squeak comes almost every time I play a middle B and sometimes on the notes below it. My notes in the upper register are fine. It's just middle B, A, and G, with most of it at B. When I play these notes, I can hear the notes for a fraction of a second, and then the squeak kicks in.
I've been experimenting with my embouchure, and when I play with less mouthpiece in my mouth, the squeaks get a little better. But it's very little mouthpiece compared to how I've been playing all these years. And throughout many of these years, I've had private instruction, and none of my teachers ever had me play with that little mouthpiece. So I don't think that's the best solution.
So far, it sounds like it's the mouthpiece. I tried my wooden clarinet (the one that got repadded) and my plastic clarinet. And both seemed to have the problem. But it's strange that it's only on certain notes, particularly the middle D. I use a Van Doren B45, I believe. Would you guys suggest replacing it? And if so, do you know of any good deals? I am not exactly made of money at the moment haha.
Thanks!!
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Author: kdk
Date: 2011-05-06 02:08
jjkimtennis wrote:
> Hi, I'm sorry, I don't know why I said middle B, C, and D
> haha... I actually meant low B and A. Jeez,
That's, of course, an important difference from squeaking on the long notes above the break (B5-C5).
> Anyways, I looked at my mouthpiece again
> closely today, and I noticed that I do have some small chips.
> Nothing very big, but when I run my fingernail along the tip,
> there is one chip that my nail stops in, as well as a couple
> that cause some friction, rather than a smooth run. Along the
> rail, there is another chip that the tip of my thumb nail can
> rest in. None of these chips are huge, but they are noticeable
> with a careful look. Can small chips such as these really make
> a difference?
Absolutely yes!
>
> The squeak comes almost every time I play a middle B and
> sometimes on the notes below it. My notes in the upper register
> are fine. It's just middle B, A, and G, with most of it at B.
> When I play these notes, I can hear the notes for a fraction of
> a second, and then the squeak kicks in.
>
The best way to be sure would be to try playing with a different mouthpiece - ideally another B45 so the reeds you have now will likely work on it. If you use a very different mouthpiece as a test, you may introduce reed problems if they don't work well with the test facing. If you can't find someone who owns and will lend you a B45 to try for a few minutes, any undamaged mouthpiece will at least tell you if the squeaks are still happening or not.
> I've been experimenting with my embouchure, and when I play
> with less mouthpiece in my mouth, the squeaks get a little
> better.
Unless your lower lip is really too far down the mouthpiece to begin with, this isn't likely to be the cause of the problem - squeaks from taking too much mouthpiece would be more generalized over the compass of the instrument and the sound would be harsh and spready - I doubt if a competent private teacher would have let you play that way.
> I use a Van Doren B45, I believe. Would you guys suggest replacing it?
Yes, if the squeaks go away when you try a different mouthpiece.
> if so, do you know of any good deals? I am not exactly made of
> money at the moment haha.
>
Vandorens don't exactly cost an arm and a leg (less than $100). But if you need something less expensive, student mouthpieces like the Fobes Debut, or Hite Premiere are good starter mouthpieces that can be found at most online outlets. You can price shop easily enough among the online suppliers.
Good luck,
Karl
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2011-05-06 03:11
Have your instrument checked by a repair person.
If they say the instrument is fine, try some different mouthpieces and a few new reeds. Those are the only things that can cause this problem (other than the player).
If all the equipment is fine, then you have to try to find the problem in your technique.
However, due to the chronic nature of this problem, I think it is in the instrument or mouthpiece- or maybe both..
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2011-05-06 03:37
>> I don't know why I said middle B, C, and D haha... I actually meant low B and A. <<
>> The squeak comes almost every time I play a middle B and sometimes on the notes below it. <<
Low B is the B below the staff, with left hand fingers plus middle finger of right hand. Middle B is the B with all fingers (same fingering as low E) and register key, which is in the middle of the staff and is why it's called middle B. I assume middle B was a mistake and you mean the low B, A, G, etc.?
My first guess would be a bridge key adjustment problem which prevents the lower joint top pad to seal. Especially with B you only have one finger to close it. The more fingers you add you have more force to close it so maybe sometimes you do and why it's just almost every time or more with the B than lower notes.
If you did actually mean middle B and the A below it (throat A) then the problem is very different.
Regardless it can also be other things like mouthpiece, reed, a different mechanical problem, etc.
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Author: jjkimtennis
Date: 2011-05-06 04:30
Oh my gosh, what is wrong with me? LOL! Yeah, I meant low B, C, and D. Gosh, dunno why this took me three tries -.-
I recently took my clarinet to a repair shop and had it checked up. At that point, my pads were in horrible shape, and the guy said replacing the pads would do the trick. I'm also assuming he played around with the clarinet to make sure it was fine because I found some new cork grease on it when I got it back. So right now, I'm assuming it is the mouthpiece because I've tried many reeds, and if there are that many bad reeds in a box, well, that raises some serious questions about Vandoren's quality control hahaha.
So I think my budget for a new mouthpiece is around $100 or preferably lower. Do you guys have any suggestions? I think I'd like to try something other than a Vandoren B45 and branch out.
Again, thanks a ton, guys! You are so awesome!
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Author: kdk
Date: 2011-05-06 05:53
clarnibass wrote:
>
> Low B is the B below the staff, with left hand fingers plus
> middle finger of right hand. Middle B is the B with all fingers
> (same fingering as low E) and register key, which is in the
> middle of the staff and is why it's called middle B. I assume
> middle B was a mistake and you mean the low B, A, G, etc.?
>
In the OP's defense, "middle C" to non-clarinetists conventionally means C4 (the one jjkimtennis is talking about) - it's the middle note between the bass and treble staves of the Grand Staff, which is why I asked which notes he (or she - it's hard to tell from the screen name) actually meant.
Karl
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2011-05-06 14:08
If the pads are OK (and there's no other leak, from, say, a crack), the mouthpiece is almost certainly the problem. If a ding is big enough to catch your thumbnail, it's big enough to cause a leak. The first check is to try another mouthpiece.
It's easy to put the reed on leaving a tiny leak, particularly at the corner of the tip. Try moving the reed slightly higher on the mouthpiece, so that the reed tip is a tiny bit higher than the mouthpiece tip -- maybe the width of a thin pencil line.
If that cures the chirping, then the problem is probably that the reed tip is curved more than the mouthpiece tip, creating a tiny gap at one or both of the corners. If this is the problem, you can buy slightly softer reeds and move them up, or file the end of the tip, curving it to match the mouthpiece. For this, I use a Revlon Diamond Dust nail file and squeeze all but the very end of the tip between my thumb and forefinger.
I sorted through more than a dozen Courdier trimmers before I found one that matched my mouthpiece tip exactly.
If the squeaking continues, lick the palm of your hand, press the bottom of the mouthpiece against it and suck the air out. The reed should take several seconds to pop away. If it pops immediately, there's a leak, due to unevenness in the reed or the mouthpiece. (Do this only once, as it's very hard on the reed.)
It's easy to put an almost invisible ding on the corner of the mouthpiece by bumping it against a wall or even a stand. Hold the mouthpiece with the lay upward and the tip pointing toward you, with a bright light coming over your shoulder. Rotate the mouthpiece up and down and look at the corners of the tip for a flat area going diagonally down from the corner. One corner will be shinier than the other. If that's the problem, there's unfortunately no way to avoid a leak at the tip.
There are people who can fill chips in the rails, but that's filling a gap with supporting material all the way around. I doubt that any material would be strong and adhesive enough to build the tip area out to its original dimensions. You may need a new mouthpiece.
I always buy reeds a full strength heavier than I play and flatten the bottoms on sandpaper over plate glass, to create a smooth surface and assure a tight seal.
Ken Shaw
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Author: jjkimtennis
Date: 2011-05-07 03:38
Thanks a lot guys. I ordered a new mouthpiece, the Vandoren M13 Lyre. I'm taking a risk by not trying it out beforehand, but I don't have any stores around here carrying mouthpieces that aren't really cheap. I only ordered one. Should I order an extra, try out both, and return the one that doesn't play as well? After reading through this forum, I'm getting the impressing that Vandoren's quality control is awful, and I'm worried that I'll get a defective mouthpiece or something. Is the quality control bad enough that I have to worry about this?
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Author: asabene
Date: 2011-05-07 06:06
Frequently little chirps like that are a result of biting or a reed that is too soft. I doubt it is your mouthpiece, unless it is possible to damage a mouthpiece in such a way that would cause squeeking on those notes (unlikely). There is also always the chance that your clarinet has a leak or that you are not sealing the hole under your ring finger consistently. Have your teacher or another clarinetist try it and see if they are as prone to squeek on those notes. Are the 12ths of those notes also especially prone to squeeking?
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