 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: clarinettefaerie
Date: 2011-04-23 01:33
I posted about a year ago about this... and for a while, it cleared up. Please help! Neither of my clarinet teachers can figure it out.
I get a very odd wavering (and eventually squeaking) in my upper throat tones. When I play on them when I'm warmed up or not, they feel funky; I might call it resistance, or just instability. It feels like there is water caught in the tone hole of the A key, Ab key, and/or key that comes down for F# that is underneath the A key. But, it happens both after I'm warmed up and when the horn is cold and hasn't been played on through the day. I've checked the register key, and there isn't water in it when the wavering is consistent. When this was happening before, one of my clarinet teachers put new wax around the thumb tube and register key tube, cleaned out tone holes, etc. And for a while, it helped and I didn't experience that any longer.
But, the thing is is that I'm playing a completely new clarinet, mouthpiece, reeds, and ligature than I was a year ago, and the same thing is happening again. So, my guess is that it's me, and not the horn.
My question is this: What could I possibly be doing? I've tried adjusting my tongue position, reed, embouchure, etc., and nothing seems to be helping.
Please help. Everyone is baffled by this, and it's really becoming a problem, especially in ensemble settings.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2011-04-23 02:22
It's somewhere in your tongue, and throat position.
Keep experimenting - it has to be you as your setup is completely different.
Experiment further with eee, ehh (like hey), ahh, ewww (like ew gross), and ohhh. Quite a variety of voicings to experiment with.
What pitch do you get with just the using the mouthpiece by itself?
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: clarinettefaerie
Date: 2011-04-23 02:27
I guessed it was something with my voicing... I usually get somewhere between a D and D# when I play on just the mouthpiece... I know I know, it should be closer to a D#, which means my tongue position isn't high enough...
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2011-04-23 02:45
I have seen this before in my students in the past. It was caused by 3 things. Try looking st these issues-
1. Biting.
2. The spring on the throat A key (and/or G# also) is too strong.
3. The mouthpiece has a problem/warpage/chip.
Your problem might be one or more of these- or perhaps none of them.
I would especially call attention to number 2- the spring. If the spring is too firm it causes you to push down very hard. This puts more pressure on the reed (from being pushed down onto your lower lip) than normal. Go to a good repair person and ask them to make the spring less stiff.
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Author: clarinettefaerie
Date: 2011-04-23 03:17
Mm... what's double lipping? :P I'm pretty sure I'm not biting. I've been messing around with it for about an hour, and I've come to this conclusion: I think my throat is closing (for sure), while my tongue position may be too open (I think?).
Skygardener... The spring thing actually makes a lot of sense also. My clarinet is less than a year old, so it's still in the breaking in period. The D# key on the upper joint was becoming progressively clicky a couple of months ago, and my clarinet teacher took it apart and found that the spring was indeed too stiff... so that is likely the case with the A key. At my next lesson, I'll ask her to adjust it. I don't trust my repairman so much with my Tosca... hehe.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2011-04-23 03:39
My first guess would have been a torn pad skin or dirt blocking one of the tone holes in the throat when it's open. If you've checked this out already, what about having too much mouthpiece in your mouth? Have you tried taking less reed?
Karl
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2011-04-23 03:50
There are a bunch of possibilities. Sky, Karl - all experienced teachers, and many ideas for you.
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2011-04-24 00:30
If it were not a new horn, I might suspect the top two trill keys. If you are not careful how you put the instrument together, those two pads can develop side play, over time, and not quite seal completely. It's a common problem on older or used instruments and a tech can correct it quickly with a screwdriver and swedging pliers. However, I would be surprised to see that problem on a new instrument.
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2011-04-24 00:58
Beth wrote-"Skygardener... The spring thing actually makes a lot of sense also. My clarinet is less than a year old, so it's still in the breaking in period. "
Springs do not have a "break in" period. The stiffness that you get today will be the same as it will be next year. The only way that they can change their strength is through exceptional corrosion or by bending it manually.
Generally, new clarinets have the springs adjusted to be very stiff. They can be regulated to be lighter very easily by just about any repair person.
Try this to test- play the throat A, but put your LH thumb on the wood of the clarinet, under the thumb tube and push up. This puts the pressure back onto your upper teeth like you have for most other notes. Does it still squeak?
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2011-04-24 05:10
The "wavering" on throat notes, especially the F# and above, is a problem I had for a short while when I was really out orf practice. My usual setup felt a bit too strong then. After the wavering, the more I played and more tired I got, eventually the notes could squeak. I found it happened from a bad "voicing" of the notes from my muscles for this felt tired. I overcame this issue by practicing and getting used to my setup again and a better embochure.
This might not be the problem for you, but I would at least try a softer reed to see what happens. Maybe a half strength softer is enough. If the softer reed feels a bit too soft for you, that's still good. Purposely play very relaxed so the softer reed doesn't close and see if you still have the problem. I would also try at least another mouthpiece with also a slightly "too soft" reed to check.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-04-24 05:34
I'd also go with trying a softer reed to see if that helps them.
Not long ago I serviced someone's R13 and it played fine and the throat notes were clear for me using my own mouthpiece/reed/ligature combination, but when the owner played it she got a strange warbling and instability on the throat notes and she does like to play on reeds that are far too hard for her (because 'they make a better sound').
Do check there's also a small gap between the throat A and throat G# keys when you open the A key slowly - if not, then back the screw on the G# key off until there is. You should feel a bit of delay when the A key makes contact with the adjusting screw on the G# key. This gap is meant to be there and the lack of it will mean your throat G# pad may not close fully.
I'm not understanding how strong springs can even contribute to this as they're keeping the keys closed - if anything, weak springs can be the cause of warbling if the springs are so weak the keys can flap open and closed (giving a warble) when playing loudly.
Buffet flat springs are generally set on the heavy side, but for closed keys you do need the springs to be reasonably strong in order to ensure the keys close and the pads seal.
In my experience, I would strongly advise your teacher NOT to start mucking around with your clarinet as they are a teacher as opposed to a repairer and most teachers don't know one end of a screwdriver from the other, so are the LAST people you want unless you want them to bugger things up for you, especially if they start altering spring tensions without knowing what they're doing.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2011-04-24 18:16
The strong spring can cause that as it forces the player to press harder on the throat A key - thus increasing the pressure on the bottom lip.
That's an additional pressure separate from reed strength issues, so it certainly makes sense.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
Post Edited (2011-04-24 18:18)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-04-24 19:39
Opening the throat A key shouldn't increase the pressure on the bottom lip any more than closing any LH fingerholes does.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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